I live in remote minnesota, about 2-3 miles from the closest tower, there might be a hill or slight rock out cropping and some trees blocking sight distance but shouldn't be too bad . My 996xt rarely works. I'm using a 800 mhz short rubber antenna from radio shack, signal is usually 2-3 bars. Neighbors have the same issue, same scanner with 75ft of cable and a fiberglass antenna on the roof, they get 5 bars of signal. The info for the county I'm in is: Project 25 Phase I. System Voice:APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive. It is a Simulcast system. Sometimes the scanner will lock in on chatter but nothing comes through the speaker, other times it will be very broken up. Is there anything that can be done to fix the issue, even if it means buying a different scanner. I programmed the scanner so if there is any tweaks to try lets hear them. Thanks.
bcd996xt hardly ever works
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teufler
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height is everything when getting good 800 hits. If the signals are then garbled, sometimes dropping the height helps, or as Voyager suggested, a yagi or beam antenna, then rotate for best reception. I may not be at the closest tower but off to the side somewhat, to reduce interference from other towers, in a simulcast system. now 2-3 miles from a tower, you should try that without an antenna, then try your stock antenna, and then start working to better antennas if needed. Do you have any hills around you that could be blocking. 800 is very line of site, or the radio could be blocked from a heating duct in the house. If your house is 2 story, try the 2nd floor. Try going mobile and see if reception improves. Try programming the nat wx service station for your area. They are usually very strong.
You could try the attenuator feature. You could be getting signal from more distant towers that is distorting the signal from the local tower.
chris
chris
Which yagi do you suggest? It seems like here the towers almost line up with eachother so I'd need one that doesn't reach over maybe 5 miles.
A google earth elevation profile of a strait line from the closest tower and my house shows there is a hill, but when adding the 130 feet to the tower site for the height of the tower it should almost be visable.
I think its a multipath distortion issue, is there any scanner on the market that handles multipath distortion better than others?
Will try the attenuator feature on the scanner thats getting 5 bars.
Thanks.
A google earth elevation profile of a strait line from the closest tower and my house shows there is a hill, but when adding the 130 feet to the tower site for the height of the tower it should almost be visable.
I think its a multipath distortion issue, is there any scanner on the market that handles multipath distortion better than others?
Will try the attenuator feature on the scanner thats getting 5 bars.
Thanks.
I'm pretty sure you are up against that multipath/simulcast distortion bear. You are getting signals from a couple of sites and the scanner is having trouble decding the signals. Thus this isn't a reception issue, rather it is a decoding issue. That manifests itself in either no audio or garbled audio.
Voyager is spot on with the Yagi recommendation. A taller "regular" antenna will probably worsen the situation as it may pull in even more sites adding to the distortion.
A couple of things to try short of the Yagi antenna. Turn on site attenuation. Also try tweaking the P25 Adjust Mode and Adjust Level settings. (Each system and location is unique, so I can't say which values work best for you. I can use one pair of Adjust Level/Mode settings but my next door neighbor has to use something different. They are that "touchy").
See: Easier to Read BCD996P2/XT Digital Scanner Manual
I've made a few trips up to Minnesota and found my 536 scanners deal with the ARMER system much better than my 996XT did, hands down.
Voyager is spot on with the Yagi recommendation. A taller "regular" antenna will probably worsen the situation as it may pull in even more sites adding to the distortion.
A couple of things to try short of the Yagi antenna. Turn on site attenuation. Also try tweaking the P25 Adjust Mode and Adjust Level settings. (Each system and location is unique, so I can't say which values work best for you. I can use one pair of Adjust Level/Mode settings but my next door neighbor has to use something different. They are that "touchy").
See: Easier to Read BCD996P2/XT Digital Scanner Manual
I've made a few trips up to Minnesota and found my 536 scanners deal with the ARMER system much better than my 996XT did, hands down.
teufler
Member
file for cook cty
this is a file for cook cty, mn. A freescan file, zipped per RR requirements. Attenuator is turned on, though I tried on my systems in mo, and it cut my trunk signals for 5 bars to 2 to 3 bars. As close as you say you are, I think the rubber duck will have the effect of attenuating your signal, though a yagi for 800 , you might get better copy on the Ely tower, next county to the west. http://www.amazon.com/TECHTOO®-dire...&qid=1441692093&sr=8-16&keywords=800+mhz+beam
this is an antenna that is on ebay. a yagi, 12 db gain, would cover the range you need. Probably have to get the correct antenna adapter but thats a minor problem.
I use this antenna, an 800 mhz 5/8 wave double, mounted in the house, not outside.DPD Productions - Scanner, Aviation, NOAA, Low-Band, 700 MHz Public Safety, Base & Mobile Radio Antennas for Commercial & Hobbyist Applications click on the scanner antennas.
I see reading your past posts that you have had this reception issue for a couple of years. Can you hook up the scanner and go mobile, driving around for reception improvement. This would show where you are receiving and then drive home noting reception drop off.
this is a file for cook cty, mn. A freescan file, zipped per RR requirements. Attenuator is turned on, though I tried on my systems in mo, and it cut my trunk signals for 5 bars to 2 to 3 bars. As close as you say you are, I think the rubber duck will have the effect of attenuating your signal, though a yagi for 800 , you might get better copy on the Ely tower, next county to the west. http://www.amazon.com/TECHTOO®-dire...&qid=1441692093&sr=8-16&keywords=800+mhz+beam
this is an antenna that is on ebay. a yagi, 12 db gain, would cover the range you need. Probably have to get the correct antenna adapter but thats a minor problem.
I use this antenna, an 800 mhz 5/8 wave double, mounted in the house, not outside.DPD Productions - Scanner, Aviation, NOAA, Low-Band, 700 MHz Public Safety, Base & Mobile Radio Antennas for Commercial & Hobbyist Applications click on the scanner antennas.
I see reading your past posts that you have had this reception issue for a couple of years. Can you hook up the scanner and go mobile, driving around for reception improvement. This would show where you are receiving and then drive home noting reception drop off.
Another thought comes to mind concerning Yagi or other types of antennas with the purpose in limiting incoming reception (or adding "directionality").
It's potentially a good fix, but there may be a downside. If you want to listen to other systems, it will probably degrade reception on them.
The best outcome would be site attenuation and tweaking/optimizing the P25 settings. These things would apply only to the Minnesota ARMER system. This presumes the "other stuff" you might monitor is not digital.
It's potentially a good fix, but there may be a downside. If you want to listen to other systems, it will probably degrade reception on them.
The best outcome would be site attenuation and tweaking/optimizing the P25 settings. These things would apply only to the Minnesota ARMER system. This presumes the "other stuff" you might monitor is not digital.
Thanks for the help, at one point I tried a yagi, I can't recall the gain on it. Installed it on the outdoor roof top mast and aimed it where the reception was good, and it was hit and miss. Seems like weather really effects signal around here. Might need to try the yagi in the link and see if that is the ticket.
teufler: was there supposed to be a link to a file, or was that saying that in a file that site attenuation is turned on?
The distance/hills/trees to the ely tower is probably too far away. Maybe paisade head or beaver bay as that would be looking right down the shoreline of Lake superior from where I'm at. I do have the Lake County simulcast system (beaver bay and palisade head are the tower sites) programmed in, but the problem is that a control channel on that system is the same control channel as one used across lake superior in the UP of michigan, so if anything comes it, its michigan because its a strait clear shot across Superior.
I have tried the scanner in town in a building, maybe half mile from the tower I should be pulling from, it came in perfect 5 bars, crystal clear voice. Also tried it up the Gunflint trail which is 30 miles from town, but close to a repeater tower, came in fine, but only close to the tower.
I only want to listen to 800mhz. TO get into the hidden p25 menu is it hold the chrome knob and squelch button in while turning scanner on?
Believe the county I'm in must have 10 towers in it, not sure if thats considered alot or not. Probably a quarter of the county is Boundary waters canoe area, where there are no roads, only travel allowed is non-motorized, so its 10 towers in a even smaller area.
teufler: was there supposed to be a link to a file, or was that saying that in a file that site attenuation is turned on?
The distance/hills/trees to the ely tower is probably too far away. Maybe paisade head or beaver bay as that would be looking right down the shoreline of Lake superior from where I'm at. I do have the Lake County simulcast system (beaver bay and palisade head are the tower sites) programmed in, but the problem is that a control channel on that system is the same control channel as one used across lake superior in the UP of michigan, so if anything comes it, its michigan because its a strait clear shot across Superior.
I have tried the scanner in town in a building, maybe half mile from the tower I should be pulling from, it came in perfect 5 bars, crystal clear voice. Also tried it up the Gunflint trail which is 30 miles from town, but close to a repeater tower, came in fine, but only close to the tower.
I only want to listen to 800mhz. TO get into the hidden p25 menu is it hold the chrome knob and squelch button in while turning scanner on?
Believe the county I'm in must have 10 towers in it, not sure if thats considered alot or not. Probably a quarter of the county is Boundary waters canoe area, where there are no roads, only travel allowed is non-motorized, so its 10 towers in a even smaller area.
The Hold button (actually marked Hold/Resume) is to the lower right of the chrome knob (which is the Function knob). Turn your scanner off, press and hold the Hold/Resume button while powering the scanner back up. The display lights cycle. You can then get to the hidden menu.
There is no hard and fast rule on the number of towers for a simulcast system. Topography and trees are big players in the equation. Plus you may have iron ore mines for the system to deal with.
Lake County is a big county, almost 3,000 square miles, so that's a lot of ground to cover. My county is about a tenth of that and we have 13 towers, though I'm sure we have more high rises, factories, huge warehouses and big box stores than you, all of which soak up radio signals.
I'm actually in Cook County 3300 sq. miles, but part of it won't ever have towers on it. Still there are tons of hills and trees. Is there any rule of thumb by what to set the p25 adjust mode and p25 adjust filter on? With so many towers in your area you don't have a problem with multipath?
What does it mean when there can be 2-3 bars of signal and no control channel, just NFM?
What does it mean when there can be 2-3 bars of signal and no control channel, just NFM?
There is no "rule of thumb", you just have to play around to come up with the best combination. (Kind of like everyone trying to wear size 38/32 jeans.) I'm sure it will be an ordeal in a rural/remote area as there probably isn't the level of radio traffic that you'd see in an urban area like the Twin Cities.
I can use 11/175 but my neighbor uses 13/180 - same scanners, same system. These things can be touchy - moving the scanner to a different room could mean different settings. It's all in how those towers hit your scanner.
I do have multipath issues, at least on my x96 scanners (536 much, much better). There are probably three towers covering my home.
I suspect you are getting that control channel with 2-3 bars the scanner is picking up "something" and if you are not hearing voice/seeing talkgroup IDs, that means the scanner is "listening" to the control channel. The interesting thing with digital radios is that you either have it or you don't - the number of bars is almost academic. I can hear a P25 channel quite clearly, but there are no bars on the signal strength meter.
I can use 11/175 but my neighbor uses 13/180 - same scanners, same system. These things can be touchy - moving the scanner to a different room could mean different settings. It's all in how those towers hit your scanner.
I do have multipath issues, at least on my x96 scanners (536 much, much better). There are probably three towers covering my home.
I suspect you are getting that control channel with 2-3 bars the scanner is picking up "something" and if you are not hearing voice/seeing talkgroup IDs, that means the scanner is "listening" to the control channel. The interesting thing with digital radios is that you either have it or you don't - the number of bars is almost academic. I can hear a P25 channel quite clearly, but there are no bars on the signal strength meter.
The P25 adjustable numbers, does the scanner needs signal/talking before starting to adjust them, or will adjusting them help a scanner that isn't getting signal or control channel?
My scanner at home with the short rubber 800mhz antenna and 90 degree bnc adapter, 90 percent of the time it will show 1-3 bars, and NFM where the control channel shows up, it can be this way for days/weeks and there will be no talking or it will never lock in on a group. Once in awhile it will still show 1-3 bars and a control channel will pop in, when this happens it usually will lock in on someone talking but no voice will come out the speaker, if something does happen to come out the speaker it will be garbled. If I lift my scanner up about 2 feet I can get a control channel, unfortunately this puts it in a area where I can't set it on anything, the times I've tried this and someone happens to be talking it will lock in on the talk group but nothing comes out the speaker. This must all be an issue with not enough signal and need a external antenna.
At the neighbors house it seems like the opposite, they have the external roof antenna, most of the time they can have 3-5 bars, usually a control channel, sometimes NFM will flash. Talking is sometimes clear, sometimes garbled. Definitely a improvement over mine, but not nearly as good as it should be.
My scanner at home with the short rubber 800mhz antenna and 90 degree bnc adapter, 90 percent of the time it will show 1-3 bars, and NFM where the control channel shows up, it can be this way for days/weeks and there will be no talking or it will never lock in on a group. Once in awhile it will still show 1-3 bars and a control channel will pop in, when this happens it usually will lock in on someone talking but no voice will come out the speaker, if something does happen to come out the speaker it will be garbled. If I lift my scanner up about 2 feet I can get a control channel, unfortunately this puts it in a area where I can't set it on anything, the times I've tried this and someone happens to be talking it will lock in on the talk group but nothing comes out the speaker. This must all be an issue with not enough signal and need a external antenna.
At the neighbors house it seems like the opposite, they have the external roof antenna, most of the time they can have 3-5 bars, usually a control channel, sometimes NFM will flash. Talking is sometimes clear, sometimes garbled. Definitely a improvement over mine, but not nearly as good as it should be.
Yes you'll need active voice communications to determine which is the best P25 settings.
Any chance you can take your scanner to your neighbot's and connect to their antenna for number setting purposes? At least that would get you in the ball park for when you get back home. After that you can make an outside antenna decision.
Any chance you can take your scanner to your neighbot's and connect to their antenna for number setting purposes? At least that would get you in the ball park for when you get back home. After that you can make an outside antenna decision.
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