BEST SOURCE OF HAM REPEATER LISTINGS

AI7PM

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Any competent ham knows full well that the very best accurate source of ham repeaters for
your area would be whomever the local coordination council is. For my area it would be
ARCC's website. There is NO beating the accuracy of the local council.
I'll guess you've only dealt with one coordination group in your time as a "competent ham". I've lived in several states and regions, and have found the coordinators to be only as good as their desire to serve others. For many it's a power trip or exclusive members club, others just like the title. You may want to research the Florida repeater council as an example, and the excrement show it was until overthrown a few years ago.There certainly IS "beating the accuracy of the local council."

No, Sir, the local council is not the accurate data source you proclaim. The much promoted ARRL repeater directory has been famous for years for containing dead pairs (some years old), missing PL or other data. The source for the ARRL directory? The repeater councils. Repeaterbook, too, and they tell you so, loaded the same data as the ARRL directory, as well as data from other sources. Repeaterbook then explains that it's up to us to ensure the data is valid. We in the field are the editors. As KD8DVR pointed out above, notify Repeaterbook of changes or incorrect data, and they edit it. I've had good results with them, and update as often as I can in my travels.

I've found web searching local club sites in areas I travel to as the most up to date source. Many have a published email, and an inquiry there will give you the most accurate information, including repeaters that are uncoordinated for whatever reason. Thus, my comment upthread.
 

vagrant

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Repeater coordinators are volunteers. Testing repeaters constantly to ensure they’re working is to much to ask due to time, distance or whatever reason. It is the responsibility of the repeater trustee to contact their coordinating body and advise of changes. Still, the trustee can become an SK (deceased) which leaves it in limbo as a possible paper repeater until resolved.

With that in mind, I would still utilize a coordination list and test myself.
 

W9BU

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The much promoted ARRL repeater directory has been famous for years for containing dead pairs (some years old), missing PL or other data. The source for the ARRL directory? The repeater councils.
That has changed over the years.

When I first got involved with repeater coordination in the late 1990's, the coordinators sent their data to the ARRL each year and the ARRL massaged the data into the Repeater Directory. Granted, some coordinators had bad data and sent bad data to the ARRL. And, there may have been some coordinators that didn't send data each year. It's worth noting that the ARRL paid the coordinators who participated on a price per record basis. For some coordinators, this was a few hundred dollars of income each year. But, they key point here is that the data for the RD was only pulled once a year. The RD was out-of-date the day it was printed.

When the ARRL contracted with RFinder a few years ago to manage the data for the ARRL Repeater Directory, RFinder tried to work out arrangements with the coordinators to get their data. But, there were issues with RFinder using crowd-sourced data to supplement what they got from the coordinators, issues with the coordinators not being allowed to edit the wrong data in the RFinder database, and issues with long-term rights to the data. Some coordinators were able to work things out with RFinder for the first year or so, but most of the coordinators I know are not participating with RFinder. As a result, the data in the ARRL Repeater Directory is a questionable mixture of old data from the coordinators along with unedited crowd-sourced data.

I speak from experience that managing repeater data is a challenging task. After four years of working with Indiana's data, I'm still finding errors that crept in over the years, before I became coordinator, but were never corrected. And, yes, I have had a few situations where the trustee passed away, somebody turned off the repeater, but nobody told the coordinator. The big step that we've made here is that we've put the onus on the trustees to make sure their data is correct. They can log into to the database and see the data we have for their repeaters. The coordinators that I work with in the surrounding states are also working very hard to keep their data current. But, it all goes back to the trustees.
 

vagrant

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The admins are non-responsive individuals, at least in my state. He erroneously lists our repeaters, posts incorrect information, and refuses to respond to emails or correct his data.
You and or several others could be the coordinators for your region or state. The authority is derived from the amateurs in that area. It's just us amateurs agreeing to have others coordinate. If one creates, maintains and coordinates an updated list that would be a good start. Reaching out to clubs/trustees to ensure your list is accurate is the next step. Still, that step overall can be a bit much.

Alternatively, has anyone contacted your coordinator and offered to help rather than just point out the errors? It is our responsibility as amateurs to help when there is a problem as it is for us by us. I would personally do this first in order to leave things in place and you or others may have done as much and more. We all need help at one time or another, but sometimes even that is refused.

* Yes, I also understand coordinators can be difficult, or incredibly lackadaisical in their duties. I am dealing with that myself for one particular band. For another band (coordinator) it was painless and quick. I know the guy, so I'm not sure what the problem is. I had to "shove" a little which got some response. I don't want to bury the guy as he means well, but he's not even following the coordinating body bylaws which is what I quoted to "shove".

As to this thread...the thing to take away from this is setting your expectations of the accuracy, or lack thereof, of any repeater list. Whatever list you have, it is as accurate as the last time you tested it.
 

MTS2000des

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Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
You and or several others could be the coordinators for your region or state. The authority is derived from the amateurs in that area. It's just us amateurs agreeing to have others coordinate. If one creates, maintains and coordinates an updated list that would be a good start. Reaching out to clubs/trustees to ensure your list is accurate is the next step. Still, that step overall can be a bit much.

Alternatively, has anyone contacted your coordinator and offered to help rather than just point out the errors? It is our responsibility as amateurs to help when there is a problem as it is for us by us. I would personally do this first in order to leave things in place and you or others may have done as much and more. We all need help at one time or another, but sometimes even that is refused.
I've spent THOUSANDS out of my own pocket funding one of the only mixed mode P25 repeaters in the state. Only had a few folks offer to pay anything towards keeping it up. Actually had someone who monopolized it for months go "full ham" when said person was casually asked on the air to contribute SOMETHING to keep something running they enjoy. This is the just the nature of the "ham radio" business. Lots of taking and no giving.

The admin for Georgia took it upon himself to decide that "our repeater has overstated coverage" because he presumably can't work it with some CCR turdbucket HT from 30 miles away. When one of our trustees contacted him, instead of being humble, he chose to take his errant musings public by posting snarky comments on their listings. As a result, I have NO DESIRE to assist an entity that fosters inaccurate data and then appoint people who are know-it-all "experts" who's QRZ bio reads like a self-righteous diatribe about what an asset to society they are. KV4VT has had every opportunity to contact me, as I provided my personal cell phone, work phone, personal and professional emails- no response equals "FU" in my book.

I sent simple emails requesting correction to the admin's email address. Registered and reported the same info. No response. It is not my job to be a DBA. I already have full time employment running a public safety radio system for a living. It's basic professional courtesy to at least respond to someone. It's not worth my time. It's their show and they can run it how they wish, the same way it's our Quantar and we can run it how we wish. I respect that. Difference is I'm adult enough to tell someone to get lost.
 

k9wkj

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where they make the cheese
every thing is always wrong
I use the state/region repeater coordinators
but for some areas that doesn't work (I am looking at you SERA) as they deny non members seeing the listings
fortunately I dont get around to much anymore, or I would be grumpier about unpublished/nonshared databases
 

ladn

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Southern California and sometimes Owens Valley
Here in SoCal, on e of my major annoyances, is the way repeaters are (sometimes) listed, especially 440 repeaters. Listing a repeater's coverage area is considerably less useful to me than listing the repeater's physical location. SoCal is a large geographic area with many repeaters. For example, a repeater that has listed coverage in "LA County" and is located on Verdugo Peak, isn't going to be heard (well, if at all) in Lancaster, in the Antelope Valley, but in LA County. SCRBBA is particularly egregious about listing it's coordinated repeaters this way.
 

W9BU

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You and or several others could be the coordinators for your region or state.
I wonder if you are confusing two different roles.

The frequency coordinator for a state or an area does, as you say, derive their "authority" from the amateurs in that area. A point that was made to me by a coordinator from another state is that "frequency coordinators make recommendations to reduce interference". Whether or not anybody follows those recommendations is pretty much up to the people who request our recommendations.

OTOH, MTS2000des said "The admins are non-responsive individuals, at least in my state." I believe he was referring to the Repeaterbook admins. They are appointed by Repeaterbook and they don't make coordination recommendations. Their role is to edit the data at Repeaterbook.
 

MTS2000des

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OTOH, MTS2000des said "The admins are non-responsive individuals, at least in my state." I believe he was referring to the Repeaterbook admins. They are appointed by Repeaterbook and they don't make coordination recommendations. Their role is to edit the data at Repeaterbook.
Correct. My comment was strictly regarding Repeaterbook and their administration, specifically the Georgia admin. Not directed in anyway towards any repeater coordinating body.
 

chrismol1

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I use this

It often uses multiple data sources and from repeater coordination councils , just in my area alone it uses 4 data sources
It also does AM/FM/TV too
and organizes everything by freq, and distance
 

fineshot1

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NJ USA (Republic of NJ)
I'll guess you've only dealt with one coordination group in your time as a "competent ham". I've lived in several states and regions, and have found the coordinators to be only as good as their desire to serve others. For many it's a power trip or exclusive members club, others just like the title. You may want to research the Florida repeater council as an example, and the excrement show it was until overthrown a few years ago.There certainly IS "beating the accuracy of the local council."

No, Sir, the local council is not the accurate data source you proclaim. The much promoted ARRL repeater directory has been famous for years for containing dead pairs (some years old), missing PL or other data. The source for the ARRL directory? The repeater councils. Repeaterbook, too, and they tell you so, loaded the same data as the ARRL directory, as well as data from other sources. Repeaterbook then explains that it's up to us to ensure the data is valid. We in the field are the editors. As KD8DVR pointed out above, notify Repeaterbook of changes or incorrect data, and they edit it. I've had good results with them, and update as often as I can in my travels.

I've found web searching local club sites in areas I travel to as the most up to date source. Many have a published email, and an inquiry there will give you the most accurate information, including repeaters that are uncoordinated for whatever reason. Thus, my comment upthread.
With such a negative attitude in your fellow hams as yours it is no wonder ham radio is on the decline. If you have had problems with any of the coordinators in your past then why did you not help them with whatever problem you had with them????? It is up to us to help them to help us! Your lack of confidence in our fellow hams is disturbing! Even though I am not a member of our local coordination council i regularly scan the local repeater listings and send them information they may not know about in order for them keep the listings as accurate as possible. I view this accuracy as a matter all hams responsibility.
 

AI7PM

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....If you have had problems with any of the coordinators in your past then why did you not help them with whatever problem you had with them?????
That was part of the problem. Offers to help were refused. Attempts by the ham community to correct the issue before it balooned were rebuffed. It was a closed fiefdom. Call my attitude what you will, that was the facts, available for you to research.
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
Correct. My comment was strictly regarding Repeaterbook and their administration, specifically the Georgia admin. Not directed in anyway towards any repeater coordinating body.
For what it is worth, I submitted a correction and update for a repeater in my area this past Sunday, June 28th to RepeaterBook. I immediately received a courtesy email letting me know my update/correction would be reviewed and this morning, June 30th I received an email stating my update/correction was added to their current listings. Went to the RepeaterBook site to confirm and sure enough everything I submitted and requested deleted was taken care of.

Looks like it is indeed a GA admin issue, however, not a RepeaterBook issue as a whole.....

Have you tried contacting RepeaterBook directly specifically Garrett Dow, KD6KPC (the site owner) and letting him know about your regional admin's issues?
 
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MTS2000des

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Looks like it is indeed a GA admin issue, however, not a RepeaterBook issue as a whole.....

Have you tried contacting RepeaterBook directly specifically Garrett Dow, KD6KPC (the site owner) and letting him know about your regional admin's issues?
Nope. Not my job to skip trace the site owner. I followed the instructions provided, and used the "admin contact" as this is the only form of communication afforded on their site. No response to the form. No response to the email I sent to KV4VT. No response to the updated data sent through my Repeaterbook.com account. If Mr. Dow really wants people to hear from them, he'll make his contact information known on his site. Even on their "legal" page, there is no publicly provided email address, mailing address or telephone number, yet telling you to "contact us via this page" with no valid contact information, which basically equates to being told to go piss into a fan.
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
Nope. Not my job to skip trace the site owner. I followed the instructions provided, and used the "admin contact" as this is the only form of communication afforded on their site. No response to the form. No response to the email I sent to KV4VT. No response to the updated data sent through my Repeaterbook.com account. If Mr. Dow really wants people to hear from them, he'll make his contact information known on his site. Even on their "legal" page, there is no publicly provided email address, mailing address or telephone number, yet telling you to "contact us via this page" with no valid contact information, which basically equates to being told to go piss into a fan.
It took like 2 seconds for me to find out Garrett’s personal email at his Zed page......But I get it, for some it’s the principle of the matter.

73 OM
 
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