XTL/XTS5000 Best way of organizing XTS5000 NAS codeplug

[bob-the-scanner-man]

How are those of you who use an XTS5000 for NAS organizing your codeplug?

I have an XTS5000 that I have set up to NAS a Phase I simulcast system. It works great but I am only monitoring a few talkgroups as I wanted to be sure I mastered the concept of NAS first before trying anything more complicated.

That brings me to my question, how are you guys handling systems with multiple sites? Right now I'm just monitoring the simulcast but there are at least two other sites I would like to monitor when I am outside the coverage of the simulcast site. I imagine there are probably a few ways to do this each with their pros and cons.

 

[chrismol1]

Mine is simple. a zone per county, channels 1,2,3 for each as follows. 1. mixed which contains the most used talkgroups on the system then the others are for on going incidents as to not miss anything 2. law enforcement only 3. fire tacs only. Tho sometimes I will scan list program around on channel one and replace a less used talkgroup for a talkgroup used during an incident. I typically only monitor 1 system at a time per radio so as not to miss anything as the systems are busy. I did use multi-system scan previously but didn't care for getting hung up on hearing some deputy call out for a bathroom break on one system while missing a poll or a deputy key their mic in a fight on the other system. Although It works good for less busy systems without a fully loaded scanlist that I have. If I want to do more I have more radios programmed the same with those area systems. 3 radios = 3 systems same time without missing transmissions

Your question for multiple site depends, are the talkgroups you wish to monitor being broadcast on the sites you would roam to from your main site? If so it would be as simple as selecting Smartzone as coverage type, and let the radio roam by adjacent site broadcasts or control channels in the list to the better site/signal. Being aware of since this is non-affiliate scan, the sites you roam to and from must carry talkgroups in the same scan list, being 15 talkgroups(with the mod) on an XTS, fill accordingly, much easier on an APX as it holds many more talkgroups per scan list

 

[ElroyJetson]

I set up scan lists mostly on a per agency basis. I tend to listen to the agency that's local to where I am now. So I set up a scan list that covers their most commonly used interesting channels. I then set the rotary to access conventional channels which have those scan lists connected to them. As per standard NAS practice, trunking data is programmed in channel slots 17 and above, conventional channels only, which have mode slaved scan enabled, are found only in channels 1 thru 16.

In the case of a possible large scale emergency, one that will have everybody working off the same channels, I set the last channel to a scan list that covers only the emergency, all county, all agency, area wide, command, and alerting talkgroups. If I were to hear a large explosion I'd zip right to that last list and wait for it to light up.

 

[bob-the-scanner-man]

I set up scan lists mostly on a per agency basis. I tend to listen to the agency that's local to where I am now. So I set up a scan list that covers their most commonly used interesting channels. I then set the rotary to access conventional channels which have those scan lists connected to them. As per standard NAS practice, trunking data is programmed in channel slots 17 and above, conventional channels only, which have mode slaved scan enabled, are found only in channels 1 thru 16.

In the case of a possible large scale emergency, one that will have everybody working off the same channels, I set the last channel to a scan list that covers only the emergency, all county, all agency, area wide, command, and alerting talkgroups. If I were to hear a large explosion I'd zip right to that last list and wait for it to light up.

This is exactly how mine is set up right now.

How are you handling multiple sites? Or are you just monitoring a single site?

In my case I want to be able to drive around and have a somewhat seamless transition to the site that has the best signal.

For example, I am listening to PD A on the simulcast and drive out of its coverage area into the coverage area of the additional site that also carries PD A.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Truth be told, I'm not in regular range of systems I scan on my XTS. My home county system is one of the last EDACS users so it's only when I have to take a trip out of town that I'm scanning with the XTS. So I don't worry about multi-site anything. The systems work well enough for me as things stand now. When I'm in their general area, I hear them. That's all.
Things will change when my county transitions to P25. At that point I can then use a suitably provisioned Motorola radio all the time, if I choose. But actually I'll probably just stick with my Harris gear, which yes, is kind of like embracing the Dark Side of the Force, but it is easier to use for truly safe non-affiliate scanning.

 

[natedawg1604]

The biggest issue is the 15 Talkgroup limitation for 1 scan list. For monitoring big systems with different talkgroup combinations you have to create a HUGE complicated CPS file with many different personalities and systems and scan lists, you can easily max out the various limitations of CPS.

It can be very time consuming and annoying; remember that programming a regular trunked system is complicated, doing NAS is more complicated because your tricking the radio into behaving in a way it wasn't designed to. All that being said it's eminently doable, if you know what your doing.

Frankly this is why a lot of people are using Harris XG stuff for NAS, you can scan 127 TGs at once, by far the most for any NAS compatible radio. I believe second place is APX, which is 52. Even the newest BK radios only allow 16, last I checked.

Also with Harris stuff you can program up to 1000 talkgroups in 1 system and set the 127 member scan list to be user editable. You can't do this with Moto because the radio "thinks" you're monitoring conventional channels and the "hidden" Talkgroup scan list is fixed in CPS.

 

[bob-the-scanner-man]

Yeah I'd like to eventually upgrade to an APX or something similar but I'll save that for if this system ever goes Phase 2. Right now the XTS5000 does what I want it to and I'm only into it for less than $100 since I already had Jedi accessories on hand from ham radio. Just want to be sure I'm maximizing it's usefulness.

 

[ElroyJetson]

For a few hundred bucks you can get a Harris Phase II enabled radio like an XG-75P which would be, quite honestly, a simpler and better NAS scanner than any Motorola radio. I say this as a daily user of both. I still think Motorola makes the best radios but the ease of use of a Harris radio for NAS makes it a compelling choice. Any software issues can also be overcome....

 

[bob-the-scanner-man]

For a few hundred bucks you can get a Harris Phase II enabled radio like an XG-75P which would be, quite honestly, a simpler and better NAS scanner than any Motorola radio. I say this as a daily user of both. I still think Motorola makes the best radios but the ease of use of a Harris radio for NAS makes it a compelling choice. Any software issues can also be overcome....

For right now I'm just going to stick with the XTS5000

 

[chrismol1]

This is exactly how mine is set up right now.

How are you handling multiple sites? Or are you just monitoring a single site?

In my case I want to be able to drive around and have a somewhat seamless transition to the site that has the best signal.

For example, I am listening to PD A on the simulcast and drive out of its coverage area into the coverage area of the additional site that also carries PD A.

Set the coverage type from disabled to smartzone and it to roam to the adjacent site, and if the RFSS thru the system is different than the default of 1, select astro25 omnilink. If you know the adjacent site control channels you can also add them to the control channel list as a backup if the adjacent sites broadcasts isn't stored or following thru, the radio will check the control channel list for stronger sites when going close to out of range

 

[ElroyJetson]

One of the tenets of NAS configuration is to NOT use SmartZone, so as to avoid any possibility of the radio initiating a request to direct traffic to the current site. I've never been absolutely certain of this behavior in an NAS configuration, so until it's proven safe to me, I do not recommend setting the coverage type to anything but DISABLED.

So, has that question been answered and settled? I want to know.

 

[bob-the-scanner-man]

Set the coverage type from disabled to smartzone and it to roam to the adjacent site, and if the RFSS thru the system is different than the default of 1, select astro25 omnilink. If you know the adjacent site control channels you can also add them to the control channel list as a backup if the adjacent sites broadcasts isn't stored or following thru, the radio will check the control channel list for stronger sites when going close to out of range

I will give this a try and see what happens. Is there a way to prioritize the control channels? In other words, can I force the radio to monitor the simulcast for a talkgroup that isn't carried on the adjacent site? Mainly I want to make sure that the radio doesn't "linger" on the adjacent site once I'm back in the coverage area of the simulcast.

One of the tenets of NAS configuration is to NOT use SmartZone, so as to avoid any possibility of the radio initiating a request to direct traffic to the current site. I've never been absolutely certain of this behavior in an NAS configuration, so until it's proven safe to me, I do not recommend setting the coverage type to anything but DISABLED.

So, has that question been answered and settled? I want to know.

In my case I read up on all of the different things that can cause a radio to affiliate and made sure to address each of those. I also set the concentric switch to TX Inhibit and then put a dot of superglue on the switch so even if the software methods fail there's no possible way of accidental affiliation.

 

[ElroyJetson]

The point of Smartzone coverage, the key to the way Smartzone works, is that it calls the talkgroup that is selected to the site that you are registered to. You can't hear talkgroup A on Site 001 if it's not being carried at Site 001, but is instead active on Site 002. By going to Site 001 and selectong talkgroup A, the radio sends a request to the controller saying "Send Talkgroup A to Site 001 where I am.".

This is the danger of Smartzone coverage for unauthorized radios. It may not be applicable when doing NAS. But I'm not certain of that. So I don't recommend ever using any coverage type other than DISABLED.

Simply accept the fact that as an unauthorized listener using NAS, you can't listen to talkgroups that aren't active on the site you are listening to. And you can't request that those groups be sent to your local site. If you can, you're really taking a risk you don't want to take.

When in doubt, choose the safer option. Keep coverage type set to disabled. All these specific rules of setting up NAS are all about YOUR safety and keeping you out of a troublesome scenario.

 

[bob-the-scanner-man]

The point of Smartzone coverage, the key to the way Smartzone works, is that it calls the talkgroup that is selected to the site that you are registered to. You can't hear talkgroup A on Site 001 if it's not being carried at Site 001, but is instead active on Site 002. By going to Site 001 and selectong talkgroup A, the radio sends a request to the controller saying "Send Talkgroup A to Site 001 where I am.".

This is the danger of Smartzone coverage for unauthorized radios. It may not be applicable when doing NAS. But I'm not certain of that. So I don't recommend ever using any coverage type other than DISABLED.

Simply accept the fact that as an unauthorized listener using NAS, you can't listen to talkgroups that aren't active on the site you are listening to. And you can't request that those groups be sent to your local site. If you can, you're really taking a risk you don't want to take.

When in doubt, choose the safer option. Keep coverage type set to disabled. All these specific rules of setting up NAS are all about YOUR safety and keeping you out of a troublesome scenario.

Yeah I'm staying away from fiddling with anything Smartzone related unless someone can show that it doesn't cause affiliation.

I wound up building out my codeplug the way you described above. Each channel essentially corresponds to an individual city with their PD and FD on a scan list. Then I have one channel with all talkgroups on a single scan list to monitor everything at once.

Still experimenting with the best way to incorporate the fringe coverage sites but the simulcast is doing alright most of the time now.