Better understanding of ISP Starcom21

[orgullodemexico]

I use both a BCD436HP and BCD396T for scanning. Although I have owned both radios for some time, it hasn't been until the past year that I have dedicated time to learn/understand programming of these radios. Currently my 436 is set up to monitor Illinois State Police on Starcom21.

When monitoring Illinois State Police on Starcom21 I was told my favorites folder should have the control/alt channels for the tower closest to where I live. I have tinkered quite a bit with adding/deleting frequencies for ISP District Chicago, ISP 2 Elgin, ISP 5 Joliet and ISP 15 tollways.
While I live closest to tower 113, just this morning I have observed the following

ISP 2 Elgin heard on DuPage simulcast
ISP 2 Elgin heard on Will/Grundy simulcast
ISP 17 LaSalle heard on Will/Grundy simulcast
ISP Chicago heard on DuPage simulcast
ISP Chicago heard on Will/Grundy simulcast
ISP 5 Joliet heard on DuPage simulcast
ISP 6 Pontiac heard on Will/Grundy simulcast

Since I live closest to the Will/Grundy simulcast, I am thinking if I didn't have the other frequencies programmed into my favorites list, I would be missing a lot of traffic. ISP 6 is well over 50 miles away, which should be out of my listening range. I have location for all my favorites set to OFF. Are broadcasts repeated across all the towers, so that perhaps a squad car on the north side of Chicago would hear traffic in Pontiac, IL?

My personal travel takes me from Cook County to Stephenson County. My ISP favorites folder has all district frequencies and TGIDs for everything including and in between these two counties. As I travel, with location control set to OFF, without inputting zip code location or the use of a GPS antenna should I just expect to seamlessly hear ISP traffic from whatever town/county I pass through?

Is it known what territory a given ISP District covers? For example this morning I heard a car on ISP District Chicago report his location as I-94 and Skokie Rd, which is near the Illinois-Wisconsin border.

Someone please tell me where I have deviated from how this actually works.

Thank You

 

[buddrousa]

I only enter tower sites that I can hear not just the site that is nearest to me. I can not speak for your system but the TACN Tennessee system is set up in districts Memphis D4 all sites in the D4 district transmit Memphis THP traffic plus the boundary sites of D8 Jackson THP this helps the loading on the system. The local towns and counties that go on the state system only work on the county they are in and back fill from a another site if there are coverage problems. Also what you had was a TG affiliated with those sites so they were transmitting traffic to those radios the same thing happens at Memphis Jackson Nashville ect where Dispatch centers are located.
I hope this helps.

 

[ilgrant]

You sort of have it orgull. For example, District 15 cars are affiliated across several towers. So broadcasts would occur only on towers where the Dist 15 cars are affiliated. If there are no cars affiliated with the Will County tower then you would not hear any transmissions from Dist 15.

A car in Chicago would hear Pontiac, IL traffic only if the system allows them to do so. (roaming persmissions) That is how I understand it.

Jerry

 

[werinshades]

Do you mean talk groups and not frequencies? If you're programmed sites are receiving undesirable talk groups from areas you don't wish to hear, enter only the talk groups of the district(s) you wish to monitor, put scanner in ID Scan mode and you should be all set.

 

[orgullodemexico]

Do you mean talk groups and not frequencies? If you're programmed sites are receiving undesirable talk groups from areas you don't wish to hear, enter only the talk groups of the district(s) you wish to monitor, put scanner in ID Scan mode and you should be all set.

I think ilgrant touched on something I wasn't aware of - ISP District 15 is affiliated with several towers. That is probably also true for ISP District Chicago and that is why I am hearing them on different towers.

It's not a matter of receiving undesirable talk groups - it's more of the correct combination of frequencies and TGID's for each district.

I previously had each district in it's own favorite folder but recently combined all frequencies and TGIDs into one favorite folder for all of ISP.

I put a lot of frequencies, using Chicago North, Chicago South Simulcast, Kane County Simulcast, DuPage County Simulcast, Will/Grundy Simulcast, Rockford Simulcast along with TGIDs for 12 ISP Districts. It may be overkill, but as I said, I am trying to learn by trial and error.

I appreciate the feed back.

 

[werinshades]

I think ilgrant touched on something I wasn't aware of - ISP District 15 is affiliated with several towers. That is probably also true for ISP District Chicago and that is why I am hearing them on different towers.

It's not a matter of receiving undesirable talk groups - it's more of the correct combination of frequencies and TGID's for each district.

I previously had each district in it's own favorite folder but recently combined all frequencies and TGIDs into one favorite folder for all of ISP.

I put a lot of frequencies, using Chicago North, Chicago South Simulcast, Kane County Simulcast, DuPage County Simulcast, Will/Grundy Simulcast, Rockford Simulcast along with TGIDs for 12 ISP Districts. It may be overkill, but as I said, I am trying to learn by trial and error.

I appreciate the feed back.

I used a similar programming method when I owned those scanners especially when traveling. As you know, you'd be surprised at the districts that affiliate with what tower at times.

 

[VASCAR2]

District Chicago dispatches for District 2 and District 5. Many times Dispatch will patch talk group 2-A and 5-A together depending on the number of tele-communicators on duty (on break) or amount of radio traffic. If these TG’s are patched you can hear traffic at great distances from the geographic area of a particular district. You’ll also hear the TC talking to units from both TG’s and the units response. I was in Rochelle and was hearing District 2,5,6,17,7,1,15 and 16, all off the same site.

Normally ISP districts are heard on adjoining county sites that border the geographic area of the District. As an example driving through Bloomington/Normal I hear traffic from District 6, 8, 17, 10 and occasionally District 9.

When in Rockford I always got District 2 off the South Beloit site plus the Boone and Winnebago simulcast sites. I also received District 1 off of Pecatonnica and Rockford sites. Since dispatching for Northwest Illinois ISP is out of Sterling they will at times patch District 17 and District 7 together or District 1 and 16 together (Many times on Midnight shift).

 

[lu81fitter]

With Starcom, whenever a unit travels to an area, that unit will affiliate with the tower in the area. So.... If a unit from District 2 (Elgin) travels to District 8 (Peoria), along the way, it will affiliate with multiple sites. That being said, when that D2 unit is in Peoria, and is affiliating with the tower in Metamora (Woodford Co), you should hear D2 traffic on the Metamora tower.

That is my understanding of how the system works. If I am incorrect, please, anyone with more knowledge of the system correct me.

 

[lu81fitter]

To clarify, you must have your scanner set up to monitor D2 talkgroups on the Metamora tower. If not, you will not receive the transmissions.
Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[werinshades]

With Starcom, whenever a unit travels to an area, that unit will affiliate with the tower in the area. So.... If a unit from District 2 (Elgin) travels to District 8 (Peoria), along the way, it will affiliate with multiple sites. That being said, when that D2 unit is in Peoria, and is affiliating with the tower in Metamora (Woodford Co), you should hear D2 traffic on the Metamora tower.

That is my understanding of how the system works. If I am incorrect, please, anyone with more knowledge of the system correct me.

To clarify, you must have your scanner set up to monitor D2 talkgroups on the Metamora tower. If not, you will not receive the transmissions.
Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. From the Midway Airport area, I have programmed sites 1-001/1-002 and added numerous districts from the northern half of Illinois including the local districts. I regularly receive Districts 1, 16, 17, 10, 8, 9, 14, 21 between both sites with my priority talk group set to District-Chicago Middle sector as this is who I want to hear first if possible. Cars from those districts are affiliating with one or both sites, but I can hear the traffic from my location.

 

[VASCAR2]

Not all Starcom users have statewide access. The ISP does have statewide access to the Starcom 21 system. For a mobile or portable radio to receive their Districts A talk group out side their geographic area they must select their A TG so if they use the PTT the radio transmits on their District A TG.

In essence whatever TG is selected on a mobile or portable will be carried/transmitted on the site the mobile/portable is voting. By policy ISP units outside their district geographic area are supposed to select the A TG in the District they are geographically located. It is common practice for Troopers not to change the selected Talk Group when leaving their district of assignment. A Trooper from District 16 who is traveling to Springfield for training is supposed to change his radio to District 1-A when he enters District 1. When the Trooper leaves District 1 and enters District 17 he should select 17-A.

If a Trooper is talking on a Car to Car Talk Group which is selected on his mobile both sides of the conversation will be heard on the site the mobile is voting. The Starcom 21 mobile and Portable radios have a scan feature. If a Trooper is in Winnebago County and has Rockford PD TG in the scan menu the Trooper can monitor the TG as long as his radio is voting a site which normally carries the Rockford PD talk group. Once the Trooper changes location outside the area where Rockford PD is not transmitted on the site his unit is voting his radio will not receive Rockford PD TG.

If the Trooper wants to continue to listen to Rockford PD TG outside the geographic area he must select that TG to where if he pushes the PTT he will transmit on the Rockford PD TG. This is why you’ll hear traffic on a scanner which is normally not transmitted on a site you listen.

 

[lu81fitter]

VASCAR2. That is good information. Do you know if all STARCOM radios in all patrol vehicles have the talk groups for all of the other districts?

 

[VASCAR2]

The template changed when ISP changed to the Dual band APX Motorola mobiles and portables. The previous programming included the Talk Group A for every District. There were also TG‘s for every District ISPERN (Priority) and car to car. I think there were TG’s for every District IREACH but it’s been to many years and I’m not certain. There were also area wide TG’s for special events where every unit might not have a District detail TG‘s or Dispatch B or C TG’s. The previous template also had nationwide inter agency communication TG’s and simplex 700/800 frequencies.

Whether the APX radios template have added additional TG’s for each District is unknown. I know the APX VHF side of the radio’s have the High Band Frequencies utilized by ISP plus the mobile extender (vehicular repeater) frequencies. Some rural ISP vehicles still have ICOM VHF radios for communicating with local agencies.

 

[lu81fitter]

I hear D 17 units communicating with Bureau Co SD from time to time on VHF. And I hear some troopers say they heard direct traffic from HQ to a county SD on PT-PT. Do you know if its common for them to have a scanner in a squad?

 

[VASCAR2]

Not very many Troopers use personally owned scanners to my knowledge. The State purchased numerous ICOM VHF high band under dash type mobiles a few years ago. Previously ISP had Motorola Syntor 100 watt high band mobiles but were old enough they couldn’t narrow band. ISP obtained enough ICOM VHF HB radios for District Patrol units in Rural Districts where local agencies still utilized VHF High Band. A few Troopers had scanners to monitor local Agencies which were on UHF. Back in the 80’s there were Troopers who worked the expressways in Cook County who had portables from Chicago PD.

ISP doesn’t use very many mobile radios in metro areas for plain clothes investigative or non patrol personnel. Almost everyone has a personal and or department owned cell phone. Plain clothes or Administrative Personnel usually have a portable but many don’t have mobile radios. Most Admin personnel have a desk top or lap top computer at their work station but don’t have a computer dock (IWIN) in their issued vehicle.

 

[lu81fitter]

I don't mean to hijack this thread. Sorry to the OP. Please let us know if you're questions were answered.

Thank you to VASCAR2 for providing this info. It has been enlightening.

 

[K9JLR]

I hear D 17 units communicating with Bureau Co SD from time to time on VHF. And I hear some troopers say they heard direct traffic from HQ to a county SD on PT-PT. Do you know if its common for them to have a scanner in a squad?

Some of them have scanners out west here, but I don't know whether or not they are personally owned or old scanners that might have been purchased with agency funds. They are NOT digital scanners, because McDonough County gave ISP shift commanders DMR portables after they switched over to TRBO.

 

[lu81fitter]

The traffic I heard here was between Bureau Co SD and the state police in Sterling on the Hi-band pt-pt frequency (155.370) BCSD called Sterling state and asked if they could inform the trooper to enter a crash scene from the south. When dispatch called the trooper on the STARCOM TG, he advised "copied direct". That's why I wondered about scanners in their squads. I wouldn't think they would have pt-pt freq programmed in any of their radios. But I could be wrong.

 

[VASCAR2]

When ISP used Syntor X high band mobiles there were four banks (A,B,C,D) with 8 channels per bank. Channel 1-4 on all four banks were the same in most regions/Districts. Channel 1 was ISPERN, 2 was District HF-2 dispatch, 3 was IREACH and 4 was Statewide HF-4 155.460. The next four frequencies could be programmed either according to District directive, how the radio tech programmed the radio or how the Trooper wanted. With Ericsson/GE single head radio (Lo Band & Hi Band) their were more channels//frequencies available and it was common practice to program High Band Point to Point receive into the radio. I assume the ICOM high band have at least a 50 channel capability and likely are programed to receive High Band Point to Point. None of the ISP mobiles should’ve been able to transmit on Hi Band point to point, all I ever saw were receive only. I have also seen 39.46 low band Point to Point programmed as receive only in ISP mobiles (Syntor X or Ericsson).

 

[lu81fitter]

VASCAR2. Thank you for your response. I keep learning... A little at a time.