BEWARE!!! R2500's from Japan - NO P25 Connector!

[KC1UA]

Vince48 and I have discovered, much to our chagrin, that there is no connector for the UT-122 P25 board in the R2500's that we bought from "hiauctions" on eBay.

I have sent the seller an e-mail and will advise on the course of action, but I would advise not to make a purchase from him until this gets resolved. Further, Vince already has his UT-122 board, and mine is expected Tuesday.

I know there are a few other folks here that have made an overeas purchase of an R2500/PCR2500...better crack the case and check if you haven't already.

 

[Thunderbolt]

I know there are a few other folks here that have made an overeas purchase of an R2500/PCR2500...better crack the case and check if you haven't already.

Thanks for the heads up! I have a friend of mine who is planning to purchase one and I will let him know ASAP!

73's

Ron

 

[KC1UA]

Photos of Problem

For anyone curious, here are three photos that show the issue. On the right is the UT-118 connector. On the left as you can see there is a spot on the board for the P25 connector...just no connector. Rats...

 

[RayK]

Hi All ,
Iv'e looked at the info on ebay ,and this may be a problem, the seller states that these radios are made for Japan and that the UT-122-p25 won't be available in japan (no connector) as the FCC has the cell block that may be a requirement made by the goverment in Japan?

 

[KC1UA]

Where are you reading this information? There is nothing in the "hiauction" auction that says anything about no connector. The only reference to the UT-122 module is:

"The new UT-122 Digital P25 module will not be available in Japan."

Where are you reading this information?

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Yeah it is disappointing but I would not panic, yet. ICOM is saving money by leaving off an unused connector. Just find the connector they are using, get one, and have someone with smd soldering experience put it in. That is what I am planning on doing. If you have not bought one yet and care about P25, I would wait until this issue is resolved.

73 Eric

 

[MacombMonitor]

As Eric pointed out, too soon to panic. Rodney Tom (hiauctions) has a good technical contact at Icom that may be able to come up with a solution.

 

[NYG]

If the UT-118 connector is the same type used for the UT-122 option, and it's not used for any other addon that someone might want you might consider de-soldering that one and moving it over.

I was planning on buying one of these myself.

That really does suck though. Who wants to screw around with a brand new $900 radio.

 

[KC1UA]

As Eric pointed out, too soon to panic. Rodney Tom (hiauctions) has a good technical contact at Icom that may be able to come up with a solution.

Well, here's his reply to my "WTF question"....and it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

"Hello, according to some of the posting on the Internet, Icom made the units so that you can use only one unit (UT-106 or UT-122) at one time, you cannot use both at the same time.
This is the complaint going to Icom.
Rod Tom"

The UT-106 has NOTHING to do with this issue...or I am completely missing the boat. If the boat has left the dock without me...someone please have it drop anchor. What does the UT-106 have to do with anything.

I'm not in panic mode. I'm in pissed mode. Sorry, but when I drop $900 for something that doesn't work as advertised, this tends to happen. Hopefully as Eric suggests there will be a positive outcome to this.

 

[vince48]

Scott
I agree. I 'm really pissed! The PCR2500 is a great scanner, but all the options should be available to the user, regardless of country! hiauction, help us resolve this problem now

vince48

 

[EricCottrell]

If the UT-118 connector is the same type used for the UT-122 option, and it's not used for any other addon that someone might want you might consider de-soldering that one and moving it over.

I was planning on buying one of these myself.

That really does suck though. Who wants to screw around with a brand new $900 radio.

Hello,

It is alot easier to solder in a new connector than to desolder the UT-118 connector and move it. While I have the proper tools to do SMD soldering I do not have the proper rework station to prevent destroying the board or the connector while removing the 30 contact connector. A new connector is cheaper than the rework station.

73 Eric

 

[NYG]

Not to minimize the connector or how one wants to go about handling that, but are you all sure there are no other missing components for the P25 board to function?

 

[KC1UA]

I received another message from the seller overnight. For what it's worth, he at least seems to be trying:

"I just opened a unit and see the missing logic board for the UT-122. Some people on the Internet posted that you can use the UT-108/118 D-star logic position and it'll work.
I have not tried this b/c I don't have a UT-122 board. Try this and see if it works.
When I talked to Icom before about the UT-122 board they said the same thing...it can be used in the UT-118 D-star slot.
I will be out of Japan for a wee and back on 6/26. I will not have internet access until then."

Vince, care to give this a whirl?

 

[MacombMonitor]

I received another message from the seller overnight. For what it's worth, he at least seems to be trying:

"I just opened a unit and see the missing logic board for the UT-122. Some people on the Internet posted that you can use the UT-108/118 D-star logic position and it'll work.
I have not tried this b/c I don't have a UT-122 board. Try this and see if it works.
When I talked to Icom before about the UT-122 board they said the same thing...it can be used in the UT-118 D-star slot.
I will be out of Japan for a wee and back on 6/26. I will not have internet access until then."

Vince, care to give this a whirl?

This makes sense because it is already known that you can not use the UT-118 D-Star option board at the same time as the UT-122 A25 option board. Maybe because they both use the same connection is the reason why. Has anyone opened their UT-122 and read the installation instructions? The options come with a diagram showing where to attach it to the board. See if you can verify this. The devices are similar in function, and the connector is the same. It would seem logical that they would connect to the same point on the board.

 

[KC1UA]

This makes sense because it is already known that you can not use the UT-118 D-Star option board at the same time as the UT-122 A25 option board.

That's incorrect. The UT-122 and EITHER the UT-108 or UT-118 can be installed at the same time. This can be seen on page 128 of the .pdf manual, and is also indicated on the R2500 .pdf brochure.

Vince already has his P25 board. If he reads this and is willing to give it a shot, we can rejoice or put this option to rest. If it does work I wonder how this will affect its NAC decoding and other extra features, but first things first.

 

[EricCottrell]

I received another message from the seller overnight. For what it's worth, he at least seems to be trying:

"I just opened a unit and see the missing logic board for the UT-122. Some people on the Internet posted that you can use the UT-108/118 D-star logic position and it'll work.
I have not tried this b/c I don't have a UT-122 board. Try this and see if it works.
When I talked to Icom before about the UT-122 board they said the same thing...it can be used in the UT-118 D-star slot.
I will be out of Japan for a wee and back on 6/26. I will not have internet access until then."

Vince, care to give this a whirl?

Hello,

If I had a service manual or a radio I could figure it out. I hope that ICOM did not use the same connector with a different pinout. Having a 5 volt supply lead on the U-122 be a +12 volt supply lead on the UT-118 can lead to a bad day. A voltmeter and oscilloscope comes in very handy for scoping this out.

15 or 30 pins does seem like a lot for a dedicated connector and suggests that the connector is a ICOM audio decoder interface. The UT-118 and UT-108 using the same connector suggests that the radio firmware can recognize which card is in the slot. If the connector has the same pinout and the firmware can recognize the UT-122 in either connector then it should work.

The real limitation maybe that a UT-108 and a UT-118 can not be used in the same radio.

73 Eric

 

[MacombMonitor]

That's incorrect. The UT-122 and EITHER the UT-108 or UT-118 can be installed at the same time. This can be seen on page 128 of the .pdf manual, and is also indicated on the R2500 .pdf brochure.

Vince already has his P25 board. If he reads this and is willing to give it a shot, we can rejoice or put this option to rest. If it does work I wonder how this will affect its NAC decoding and other extra features, but first things first.

My apologies. I looked at the PDF manual, and you are correct. I may have been confused due to the UT-108 DTMF, and UT-118 D-Star not being able to be installed at the same time. However I still feel I had read somewhere that D-Star, and P25 could not be installed together, only one, or the other. I just can't find the source, or proof of that. Maybe it was in some preliminary specs that have changed now that it is actually released.

I still think, considering the similarity of their function, and the common type of connector, that the UT-122 might function in the UT-118 socket. It may require selecting the D-Star mode in the software, or programming, to use the P25 mode, when the UT-122 resides in the UT-118 socket position. Looking at the picture of the board layout, it seems as if they may be on a common parallel circuit. Is there a way to remove the metal shielding so you could confirm this? It also seems that Icom would have made it impossible to accidentally plug into the wrong socket if damage could result.

DISCLAIMER: I assume no responsibility, or liability if you try this, and damage your radio. I'm not even suggesting that you try it...just discussing theory. Do so at your own risk. According to my wife, I often have no idea what I'm talking about!

 

[EricCottrell]

My apologies. I looked at the PDF manual, and you are correct. I may have been confused due to the UT-108 DTMF, and UT-118 D-Star not being able to be installed at the same time. However I still feel I had read somewhere that D-Star, and P25 could not be installed together, only one, or the other. I just can't find the source, or proof of that. Maybe it was in some preliminary specs that have changed now that it is actually released.

I still think, considering the similarity of their function, and the common type of connector, that the UT-122 might function in the UT-118 socket. It may require selecting the D-Star mode in the software, or programming, to use the P25 mode, when the UT-122 resides in the UT-118 socket position. Looking at the picture of the board layout, it seems as if they may be on a common parallel circuit. Is there a way to remove the metal shielding so you could confirm this? It also seems that Icom would have made it impossible to accidentally plug into the wrong socket if damage could result.

DISCLAIMER: I assume no responsibility, or liability if you try this, and damage your radio. I'm not even suggesting that you try it...just discussing theory. Do so at your own risk. According to my wife, I often have no idea what I'm talking about!

I would consider it bad engineering if the two sockets were wired differently enough that accidentally swapping the option boards would destroy them. But I have seen some bad engineering so I can not be 100% blindly going for it without some voltage and signal checks.

Looking at the card functions there has to be communication between the option card and the radio processor so it can display NAC, etc. Alot of products use SPI which is similar to the serial port on a computer. The main processor can send configuration, commands, and get data over the SPI to the various integrated circuits and option cards. The option card can have an id, let's say the ASCII string "UT-122", and on power up the firmware on the main processor can get this id and enables the P25 menu and functions if the option card id is "UT-122". It is also not difficult to program the firmware to recognize and properly setup any option card in any slot.

A side project of interest is if the P25 socket pads in the PCR-1500 are the same as the PCR-2500. The firmware may be common between the PCR-1500 and PCR-2500 with the firmware determining the hardware platform on powerup. It is possible that the firmware will not check for the P25 option if it is a PCR-1500.

73 Eric

 

[vince48]

Guys
I have put the UT-122 into the Ut-118 slocket and nothing. I cannot access the DV menue. The pins may not be the same. Although the manual isn't very clear on how to receive a P25 signal.
Either I have a dead UT-122 or the Ut-118 socket will not work.

 

[KC1UA]

Did you click the P25 menu, Vince? You didn't mention that in your message.