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Big Brother Is Here

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N_Jay

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RayK said:
If you thing Big Brother isn't here check this web site about National ID.
http://www.nonationalid.com/
Stop it before its too late.
Why?

Can someone give me three of four reasons this is a bad thing?

If you work or have a bank account you already have a SSN card.

If you drive, you already have a drivers license, and many who don't opt for a state ID (non-drivers equivelent).

If you travel internationally you have a passport.
 
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Here's whats wrong with it:
If I choose not to drive, then I don't have a DL number.
If I choose not to participate in the national economy, I don't have to have a SSN number.
If I choose not to travel internationally (until the end of this year that would not include Mexico and Canada) I don't have to have a passport.

It's all about some "official" coming up to you and asking to "see your papers", as in the mid-1940's Europe. It's about your right to travel and exist without having to worry about someone tracking your every move.
Of course this applies to a small number of people, but as of right now, that small number of people have the right to remain anonymous in our society.
And also there is the "slippery slope" arguement... give in on this, and what will be the next step?
I'm not one of those nutso anti-government radical libertarians, but there is a lot to the libertarian philosophy that I like. If my state issues me a DL, and the feds a SSN number, then why is there a need for a national ID?
 
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DaveH

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N_Jay said:
Why?

Can someone give me three of four reasons this is a bad thing?
Why would we need more than one bad reason? Wouldn't one
be enough?

The website aside, it is not a stretch that these being proposed
for border crossing will be extended to checks at internal "checkpoints".
Your papers please! Just one more step down the road to tyranny.

Dave
 

datainmotion

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firescannerbob said:
I my state issues me a DL, and the feds a SSN number, then why is there a need for a national ID?
Because they are too incompetent to merge existing databases.
 
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tom_guess

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There is already internal checkpoints, called traffic stops. You have to show your ID when it happens. What's the difference?
 
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tom_guess said:
There is already internal checkpoints, called traffic stops. You have to show your ID when it happens. What's the difference?
Probable cause.

And you have to be a driver to be stopped. See above.
 

RayK

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Under the plan, a REAL ID compliant driver's license will be needed to board a plane, open a bank account, or enter a federal building. Critics have called it a de facto national ID card.A de facto national ID card will not only lay the foundations for a police state, but the consolidation of sensitive data will put citizens at risk of identity theft, create a bureacratic nightmare, and cost a fortune.

"America has always been a free country,this is not a totalitarian regime where authorities can demand 'Your papers, please' of its citizens". We have to put a stop to the encroaching police state while we still can."
 

mastr

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Privacy is already a joke in today's society, a "national ID" isn't going to have much effect other than to make some people a bit more aware of the intrusions already made every day by both government and commercial entities.

Even in the relatively rural area where I live, there are "traffic control" cameras at every major intersection. Sure the signal guys tell you they only time the lights, and they are used for that. Sometimes they send the video out to a remote facility to monitor traffic flow- who else can see that feed?

If you carry a cell phone, it is usually possible to tell its location within a reasonable grid. Some of them can even be powered on remotely by the network, with no outside indicator. If you don't want to broadcast your location- remove the battery completely, don't just shut it "off".

Landline telephone is a joke- suffice to say if a lineman can dial in to a remote testing unit and check your line resistance/capacitance, length and insulation quality, it is probably just a menu selection away to "monitor". A "trace" on a phone call takes milliseconds, not the three or four minutes TV wants you to think.

Have a GM car with "On-star?"- If GM can unlock it remotely, then you bet there is a way to locate the car and disable it via the same system, if the right person asks.

Credit history, bank records etc. are laughably easy to obtain, it is more difficult for you to get your own credit history than for someone else to do so.

W
 
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N_Jay

Guest
firescannerbob said:
Here's whats wrong with it:
If I choose not to drive, then I don't have a DL number.
If I choose not to participate in the national economy, I don't have to have a SSN number.
If I choose not to travel internationally (until the end of this year that would not include Mexico and Canada) I don't have to have a passport.
You are missing the point.

What they are issuing is STANDARDS for those things.

If you choose not to drive, travel, or work/bank, then you still don't need the ID (or more correctly an ID that meets the standards).
 
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N_Jay

Guest
DaveH said:
Why would we need more than one bad reason? Wouldn't one
be enough?

The website aside, it is not a stretch that these being proposed
for border crossing will be extended to checks at internal "checkpoints".
Your papers please! Just one more step down the road to tyranny.

Dave
You already need an ID at borders.

This does not change that. It just established what is an acceptable standard.
 
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Nah, don't think I am , N_Jay...
You brought up the DL, SSN and passport, and I was explaining why people may not have those.
Sure they're only proposed STANDARDS right now...but while you were following along with your finger and reading out loud did you miss my "slippery slope" statement?
 

n4voxgill

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The May/June 2006 issue of Endtime Magazine is dedicated to the National ID. Endtime Ministries is pleased to make this special edition of Endtime Magazine available for free download in PDF format

For the first time I believe in seperation of church and state. Endtime ministries, nutso
 

MacombMonitor

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N_Jay said:
You already need an ID at borders.

This does not change that. It just established what is an acceptable standard.
Actually I was surprised recently that I did not need ID at the border. Last month the wife and I went to Windsor. She said be sure to bring your birth certificate because they'll ask you for that, and your driver's license. They didn't ask to see anything, going in, and coming back. The just ask what our citizenship was, where we were born, why we were going there, and how long we were staying.
 

Radio1114

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Sometimes they do and sometimes they don,t. It,s a hit and miss.I would not take a chance going with out my Drivers licence and Birth Certificate.That would be just the time they would ask for them.Then they have the right to refuse you entry.But the passport to drive over is a money grabber I think.I could understand on a plane going international but not when we are tide together as countrys like Canada and U.S..
 

MacombMonitor

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Oh I agree! Here in Michigan, if you get pulled over without your driver's license, you're going to jail! I always take the appropriate ID when going to Canada too.
 
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N_Jay

Guest
MacombMonitor said:
Actually I was surprised recently that I did not need ID at the border. Last month the wife and I went to Windsor. She said be sure to bring your birth certificate because they'll ask you for that, and your driver's license. They didn't ask to see anything, going in, and coming back. The just ask what our citizenship was, where we were born, why we were going there, and how long we were staying.
They had the right. That does not mean they have to.

And if they did ask and you did not have it, then you don't get to cross.
 
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N_Jay

Guest
firescannerbob said:
Nah, don't think I am , N_Jay...
You brought up the DL, SSN and passport, and I was explaining why people may not have those.
Sure they're only proposed STANDARDS right now...but while you were following along with your finger and reading out loud did you miss my "slippery slope" statement?
Yes, I saw, but I am not sure I buy it in this case.

They are not adding any extra places where you have to show ID, just increasing the quality standards of that ID you already have to show.
 

n0doz

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it's about time there are standards for ID. How about the easiest understand: for American citizens ONLY.
 
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