how is it , that no scanner can be programmed for LTR PASSPORT , but yet someone has the info on this system ? especially the fact that its posted 0-59-?? the home channel i believe can be in the 50,s ........but whos posting this ? i mean how are they getting this info....if it cant be trunk tracked ? when i talked to someone at LENINIS he said he didnt believe the system was passport at all ? almost insisted it wasnt ! so how is someone getting the talk group info on this , if a scanner cant decode this......?? one other thing , im just curious to know , what other people would like to see in the next scanners that come out...??? id like to see scanners that can decode the passport systems to start with ...thank you for your input !
bloomfield LTR trunked system
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Hello,
My guess is insider information. Stuff overheard while the radio techs were at Denny's or was it Friendly's 8->.
Bloomfield is Passport LTR. They have a single site system. Group IDs on Passport start at about 65000 and go down. The 59-104 talkgroup is likely 59104. Area and Home channel are not in the Group ID.
Marcus Communications has a statewide Passport system called VoiceLink. http://www.voicelink.net/ If you tune around UHF (try the 451 to 455 and 461 to 465 areas) you should run across repeaters that key up about every two seconds when idle.
At least one person is somewhat actively trying to figure Passport out 8->. It is a slow process. There is a DOS computer program in beta that can decode various LTR types. Additional Passport Information is at:
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5949
73 Eric
My guess is insider information. Stuff overheard while the radio techs were at Denny's or was it Friendly's 8->.
Bloomfield is Passport LTR. They have a single site system. Group IDs on Passport start at about 65000 and go down. The 59-104 talkgroup is likely 59104. Area and Home channel are not in the Group ID.
Marcus Communications has a statewide Passport system called VoiceLink. http://www.voicelink.net/ If you tune around UHF (try the 451 to 455 and 461 to 465 areas) you should run across repeaters that key up about every two seconds when idle.
At least one person is somewhat actively trying to figure Passport out 8->. It is a slow process. There is a DOS computer program in beta that can decode various LTR types. Additional Passport Information is at:
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5949
73 Eric
good guess Eric.
I would hazard a guess that the talkgroups you see was put out from a list for planning the system. The actual assigned talkgroups may not be as listed.
The ID's listed are likely 5 digit talkgroups
(not 59-123 but 59123)
Eric's (and others) work has allowed me to trunktrack Waterbury's Multinet II system and get some talkgroups ID'd. With those and a published list of available system talkgroups, I have been able to fill out the ID list with talkgroup numbers. Still some to go but progress is good.
Looking forward to the next version.
chris
I would hazard a guess that the talkgroups you see was put out from a list for planning the system. The actual assigned talkgroups may not be as listed.
The ID's listed are likely 5 digit talkgroups
(not 59-123 but 59123)
Eric's (and others) work has allowed me to trunktrack Waterbury's Multinet II system and get some talkgroups ID'd. With those and a published list of available system talkgroups, I have been able to fill out the ID list with talkgroup numbers. Still some to go but progress is good.
Looking forward to the next version.
chris
bloomfield LTR
ok , thanks for the response guys , i was just curious . its funny how quickly they came out with digital scanners (the scanner manufactures) but yet they kinda ignore LTR passport systems. do you guys know if thier developing scanners that can decode LTR ?
ok , thanks for the response guys , i was just curious . its funny how quickly they came out with digital scanners (the scanner manufactures) but yet they kinda ignore LTR passport systems. do you guys know if thier developing scanners that can decode LTR ?
there are scanners that will do LTR but none so far that will do Multi-net, Passport, or LTR-Net. A computer based solution is likely first then the scanner one. I would look for something in 2 years or so.
chris
chris
CCTV
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Re: bloomfield LTR
800crazy, scanner manufactures were very slow in coming to market with a digital scanner (years behind)----LTR system communications make up less then 10% of the market...so don't look for a Passport LTR scanner anytime soon....ps , the Radio Shack scanner does not do any type of LTR systems..800crazy1 said:
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Regular LTR is very common for business use but not for public safety. Passport, MultiNet, and ESAS are LTR enhancements that make up a very small part of the market. They are all proprietary and scanner manufacturers will probably never spend the money for the license to decode them. There isn't enough customer demand to make it worthwhile. Since Apco-25 systems are all the rage now, there probably will not be many new Passport or MultiNet systems deployed.
Radio Shack models PRO-92 and PRO-2067 will track regular LTR systems.
Radio Shack models PRO-92 and PRO-2067 will track regular LTR systems.
MikeinCT
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Passport LTR
With all the "advances" in PCS, cellular, etc, etc, I wonder what the logic is behind investing miliions in building out a statewide Passport LTR system (in CT).
All you hear all day on these frequencies is the 10 second idle burst.
Seems to me it would be a losing proposition...
Mike in Guilford
With all the "advances" in PCS, cellular, etc, etc, I wonder what the logic is behind investing miliions in building out a statewide Passport LTR system (in CT).
All you hear all day on these frequencies is the 10 second idle burst.
Seems to me it would be a losing proposition...
Mike in Guilford
PJH
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As stated, LTR wasn't first designed for public safety use. Some companies looked at it and realized that some cities have vast amounts of UHF spectrum, but did nto want to go 800, so the public safety grade was developed. Pretty much the differences are in dynamic regrouping, emergency etc etc. Sorta like a privacy plus system to smartnet.
As for the digital scanners, it wasn't hard to come out with one. They held off and waited to see which format was going to emerge as the prominet mode. APCO chose the IMBE format, however there were very few digital systems out there. The one's that were was a mix between VSLEP, AGEIS, Provoice that was in the works, etc.
Within the last couple of years, digital systems really came online now that the manufacuters knew what to market.
As for the digital scanners, it wasn't hard to come out with one. They held off and waited to see which format was going to emerge as the prominet mode. APCO chose the IMBE format, however there were very few digital systems out there. The one's that were was a mix between VSLEP, AGEIS, Provoice that was in the works, etc.
Within the last couple of years, digital systems really came online now that the manufacuters knew what to market.
FYI: There are RS Scanners that can do LTR Regular, but none of the newest RS ones do,.. but if eneough complaints are voiced, maybe they will again do LTR,... I would look for a Passport/Multinet capable one from Uniden within 2 to 3 years, but the priority seems to be developing a PROVoice scanner first. Of course if I was a designer i would bust my butt to get the LTR stuff all done, and pray for the PROVoice one,... as its most likely that a Passport/Multinet would be easier to get figured. The only down side to this will be of course when they get a Digital version of LTR rolling. And of course the first ones would most likely be Passport or Multinet. Correct me if I am wrong here guys.
PJH
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One of the things that not many people here (scanner sites etc)uderstands is that IMBE is an OPEN standard, so basically anyone who wants to purchase the development software from DVSI to build radio's can do so. They are receiving incrediable amounts of cash from the royalties alone.
Regualar LTR is basically the same way.
AGEIS, ProVoice, VSLEP (no longer offered, only a couple of cities still use it and is being phased out) are PROPRIATARY formats, and basically not for sale. Why let a scanner company sell a product that decodes what you are selling as secure?
MA/COM (ex-Ericsson nee-GE) likes to keep things in house and the appearence of "being secure" than the open standards. Right now that's their marketing stratagy. Its helping them now, but may hurt public safety in the long run with all the interoperity propaganda going on these days.
An example is MI. The state has rolled out a statewide, anyone can come on board, fully Project25 system, yet some towns/cities have bought ProVoice conventional and EDACS systems. You can cross patch systems together to a point, but why have you own island when you can have seamless statewide coverage?
Now on top of all that, just wait for AMBE to make a big splash! If you thought IMBE sounded good, AMBE is incrediable. I got to listen to it when a large radio vendor had their "M"obile trailer out for a sales demo. IMBE and AMBE don't talk to each other.
Regualar LTR is basically the same way.
AGEIS, ProVoice, VSLEP (no longer offered, only a couple of cities still use it and is being phased out) are PROPRIATARY formats, and basically not for sale. Why let a scanner company sell a product that decodes what you are selling as secure?
MA/COM (ex-Ericsson nee-GE) likes to keep things in house and the appearence of "being secure" than the open standards. Right now that's their marketing stratagy. Its helping them now, but may hurt public safety in the long run with all the interoperity propaganda going on these days.
An example is MI. The state has rolled out a statewide, anyone can come on board, fully Project25 system, yet some towns/cities have bought ProVoice conventional and EDACS systems. You can cross patch systems together to a point, but why have you own island when you can have seamless statewide coverage?
Now on top of all that, just wait for AMBE to make a big splash! If you thought IMBE sounded good, AMBE is incrediable. I got to listen to it when a large radio vendor had their "M"obile trailer out for a sales demo. IMBE and AMBE don't talk to each other.
Hello,
VoiceLink seems very active around Hartford and somewhat active in other places.
Website is at http://www.voicelink.net/ and the PR material mentions less cost than Nextel. Also UHF should do better coverage wise. I can usually pick up two or more sites when driving around CT.
Marcus Communications is building out the system and they seem to hold licenses for alot of frequencies around CT.
73 Eric
VoiceLink seems very active around Hartford and somewhat active in other places.
Website is at http://www.voicelink.net/ and the PR material mentions less cost than Nextel. Also UHF should do better coverage wise. I can usually pick up two or more sites when driving around CT.
Marcus Communications is building out the system and they seem to hold licenses for alot of frequencies around CT.
73 Eric
just to let you know-someone changed the info i originally posted. i only posted it to let people know that the system was to be up and running last december. i did not know that the system was going to be a passport system. btw the hold up for this system was because of a software communication problem between two sites. from what i have heard, everything is up and running as of 4-15-2004. thanks
Hello,
Well in my monitoring runs to CT I have picked up both sites. Great news if the communications problems are fixed and it is more active. All frequencies are licensed for both sites but it appears the frequencies are split between two sites. Here is a logged CW ID on 453.4000 from site 1:
04400ffff87fab7 00 DCC: 0 G: 272 (453.400000) SID: 001 ID: 65535 T: 00 F: 2042
I am getting the impression from studying the protocol that 2042 means something special. It could mean no free frequencies at the time.
I get the indication that 460.4625 and 460.050000 are site 2:
0d1410227cb2490 DCC: 0 G: 837 (460.462500) SID: 002 ID: 01103 T: 09 F: 804 (460.050000)
I noticed that the Neighbor packets do not give the roaming home channel of the other site.
1c041000a88004a DCC: 0 G: 1793 SID: 002 NOp: 00 NBP: 00 SOp: 01 SBP: 05 T: 01 N: 0
Time to schedule another radio run!
Passport appears to work like Smartzone so talkgroups on one site may not appear on other sites. Passport LTR seems to distribute control channel information around like regular LTR and unlike Multi-Net or LTR-Net. Not too much of a problem if all units are homed to the same frequency.
73 Eric
Well in my monitoring runs to CT I have picked up both sites. Great news if the communications problems are fixed and it is more active. All frequencies are licensed for both sites but it appears the frequencies are split between two sites. Here is a logged CW ID on 453.4000 from site 1:
04400ffff87fab7 00 DCC: 0 G: 272 (453.400000) SID: 001 ID: 65535 T: 00 F: 2042
I am getting the impression from studying the protocol that 2042 means something special. It could mean no free frequencies at the time.
I get the indication that 460.4625 and 460.050000 are site 2:
0d1410227cb2490 DCC: 0 G: 837 (460.462500) SID: 002 ID: 01103 T: 09 F: 804 (460.050000)
I noticed that the Neighbor packets do not give the roaming home channel of the other site.
1c041000a88004a DCC: 0 G: 1793 SID: 002 NOp: 00 NBP: 00 SOp: 01 SBP: 05 T: 01 N: 0
Time to schedule another radio run!
Passport appears to work like Smartzone so talkgroups on one site may not appear on other sites. Passport LTR seems to distribute control channel information around like regular LTR and unlike Multi-Net or LTR-Net. Not too much of a problem if all units are homed to the same frequency.
73 Eric
Hello,
I was able to monitor some activity earlier this week for Bloomfield.
Site 1
Site Home Channel is 460.2125. I heard the 1-59001 talkgoup (The 1 is the site number not the home channel number). This is the frequency to park the "control channel" receiver of LTRTrunk or LTRDump to get the main system activity. 452.2500, 453.6625, and 453.8250 are used for Site 1 overflow. 453.4000 appears to be the "neighbor" channel. This is the channel radios from other sites use to register with the system. The system will assign a home channel, usually the same "roaming home" channel that seems to be different from the Site Home Channel. Site 1 does not have any neighbor information at all so radios will not go to site 2 unless it is programmed into the radio.
Site 2
No activity was noticed other than idle bursts giving neighbor information. What is interesting is there are two frequencies, 460.4625 and 460.0500, for site 2 that has neighbor entries pointing to the other frequency. I think this is a configuration error.
453.2625 does not appear to be used at all.
I need to put in Windsor frequencies in the scanner before the next run. It will be interesting to see if the site number is 1.
73 Eric
I was able to monitor some activity earlier this week for Bloomfield.
Site 1
Site Home Channel is 460.2125. I heard the 1-59001 talkgoup (The 1 is the site number not the home channel number). This is the frequency to park the "control channel" receiver of LTRTrunk or LTRDump to get the main system activity. 452.2500, 453.6625, and 453.8250 are used for Site 1 overflow. 453.4000 appears to be the "neighbor" channel. This is the channel radios from other sites use to register with the system. The system will assign a home channel, usually the same "roaming home" channel that seems to be different from the Site Home Channel. Site 1 does not have any neighbor information at all so radios will not go to site 2 unless it is programmed into the radio.
Site 2
No activity was noticed other than idle bursts giving neighbor information. What is interesting is there are two frequencies, 460.4625 and 460.0500, for site 2 that has neighbor entries pointing to the other frequency. I think this is a configuration error.
453.2625 does not appear to be used at all.
I need to put in Windsor frequencies in the scanner before the next run. It will be interesting to see if the site number is 1.
73 Eric
Eric,
Windsor's site number is 12 (000c). I believe this will allow the two towns to network down the road. Hopefully there are no shared t/g numbers. I have taken the liberty of adding "v" to the three freqs that came up but did not carry traffic.
Windsor Trunked System
MAP=55555555
OPTIONS=nVDf
PLAN=0
DESCR=LTR Passport
THRESHOLD=50
DISPOSITION=fvlxsr
v451.7500,8c,ffff,0
v453.4750,116,ffff,0
c v453.5375,11b,ffff,1
v460.7000,358,ffff,0
only t/g logged so far is 65529 and wouldn't be surprised if this is a glitch or something automatic.
chris gordon
granby ct
Windsor's site number is 12 (000c). I believe this will allow the two towns to network down the road. Hopefully there are no shared t/g numbers. I have taken the liberty of adding "v" to the three freqs that came up but did not carry traffic.
Windsor Trunked System
MAP=55555555
OPTIONS=nVDf
PLAN=0
DESCR=LTR Passport
THRESHOLD=50
DISPOSITION=fvlxsr
v451.7500,8c,ffff,0
v453.4750,116,ffff,0
c v453.5375,11b,ffff,1
v460.7000,358,ffff,0
only t/g logged so far is 65529 and wouldn't be surprised if this is a glitch or something automatic.
chris gordon
granby ct
Hello,
Talkgroups and Radio IDs share the same "space". Talkgroups start at 65535 and work down. Mobile start at 0 or 1 and work up. 65535 is the CW ID. 65529 may be a special ID or a Marcus talkgroup for testing or service.
The talkgroups for Bloomfield are in the 59000 range which seems not to conflict with the VoiceLink system. The site ids do not conflict. If Windsor has a ID range like 58000 then future linking is a possibility.
I put in code in LTRTrunk to note affiliations and home channel assigments. I need to do some testing next week.
73 Eric
Talkgroups and Radio IDs share the same "space". Talkgroups start at 65535 and work down. Mobile start at 0 or 1 and work up. 65535 is the CW ID. 65529 may be a special ID or a Marcus talkgroup for testing or service.
The talkgroups for Bloomfield are in the 59000 range which seems not to conflict with the VoiceLink system. The site ids do not conflict. If Windsor has a ID range like 58000 then future linking is a possibility.
I put in code in LTRTrunk to note affiliations and home channel assigments. I need to do some testing next week.
73 Eric
ok i took C.G.s advise from another thread for bloomfield , i took off the delay and turned the pl off. and just monitor the 460.2125 freq. and have to put up with the 3 or 4 sec. burst. and monitor bloomfield best i can with this. my question is windsor passport is thier a home ch. such as bloomfield to monitor at least a little bit with , putting up with the radio burst. thanks.
Windsor is not yet using their system. When they do, you will probably be able to monitor one channel and hear most of the traffic.
chris gordon
granby ct
chris gordon
granby ct
MarkB513
Member
I work in Bloomfield and monitor the 460.2125 frequency with a 2 second delay setting with no problem. The question I have is why is the audio level of their LTR so low compared to other UHF frequencies ?? I'm finding myself constantly turning it up to hear Bloomfield and then back down for NC C-MED for instance.......
MarkB
MarkB
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