Brevard County TRS Updates

[srich10]

I was heading into the office this morning and heard CII staging a system-wide update to take place at 0600 this morning. One of the techs stated “I called everyone and let them know... at 0559 I’ll give you a call on the radio and phone.....BCFR has a couple simplex****(couldn’t understand what he said but I have it recorded for later) up that they’ll have to take down”. At 0600 whatever they had staged they brought online. After that, all PSAPs started doing 10-74 checks with their units making sure their consoles were TX’ing fine.

Anybody heard what they staged and brought online at 0600 that required notifying all the PSAPs? I figure since they’ve got the P25 core in place per the latest comm center documents, we can use this thread for any foreseeable updates and changes to the TRS as they begin migrating the core over to P25 or any other changes they start implementing

 

[batdude]

read from bottom to top. System is not due to be replaced until 2026. I wish them luck maintaining it that long... as it is, they are splattering all over the 800 PS band with their "ge-jingle" pulses... sometimes up to 50khz gets wiped out when they key up.

 

[TDR-94]

That could also mean that the EDACS system will be fully decommissioned by 2026. They will have both the P25 Phase 2 system and the EDACS system operational for some time before the complete P25 switchover is completed. That could be several years.

 

[TDR-94]

Why would anyone stream PBPD ProVoice talkgroups?

Such a genius move!

 

[TDR-94]

Some never learn. lol!

 

[DavidS9211]

I have not stayed up to date on the upcoming changes to Brevard County's plans for updating the Public Service radio system but noticed that a new tower has been erected in Rockledge and the old tower there, used when EDACS was implemented has been removed. Can anyone tell me when to expect the newer system to go live? Also, I have a BCD996XT and wonder if it will work when the new system is implemented.

 

[srich10]

Just noticed today TG 763 was strapped with ENC. that’s right next to the PSIC TGs which are 764 and up. Thinking this is PV ENC since my 536 silenced it.
User IDs range from 14274/14273/11123/14271
Anybody have any idea what this is and if those IDs match IDs we know attribute to a certain agency?

 

[mhzscan]

Hi srich10, I've noticed that as well. I captured activity in unitrunker that Thursday with 143 hits. I'm monitoring the south system which shows first and last hits on 2/13. Out of the user IDs, the only one I know is 11123. I show that as a PBPD unit associated with Patrol1

Which system did you see it on? I've programmed it on my radio and will see if it's in the clear with pv.

 

[mhzscan]

While on topic, does anyone know of TG 187. I dont have this on my list.

 

[srich10]

P25 migration testing possibly underway...?


Today I’m hearing lots of counts on odd channels up through 47. The techs, one of them using UID 248 was talking about the gateway and the VIDA core and how he was seeing quick key ups and Downs as EDACS message-trunked rather than transmit-trunked. The tech with UID 248 sounded VERY much like P25 audio coming through the gateway back over EDACS. Him and the other tech were checking to make sure all his transmissions were “coming through on the new console clearly”.

Sounds to me like they may be staging some consoles and part of the P25 test articles for migration testing.I know the gateway and VIDA parts have already been put into place months and years ago. Sounds like we might actually be having real traffic coming across the two now.

I haven’t checked ULS but we may want to start watching if other freqs are using P25 or they start swapping out available freqs for P25 Test traffic.

UPDATE: They started up again with test counts up through 100, presumably cycling through channels. The tech listening stated “I could hear you loud and clearly on both portable and BeOn”. Looks like they’re testing LMR integration with the P25 audio coming through both avenues

 

[DavidS9211]

Will a BCD996XT be capable of monitoring the P25 for Brevard County?

 

[PBGVOLFF]

Is this something i can monitor with my 436? I can leave it on for most of the day to see what new talk groups come up on the current system?

 

[RadioTech16261]

i seen that CI was doing some testing on the Radio Maintenance channel. doing numerous counts 1234 4321 and so on. well projection is still 2026 if its not broke dont fix it and bet you money half the system will be encrypted.

 

[TDR-94]

and bet you money half the system will be encrypted.

And that's if you're lucky!

 

[ElroyJetson]

To date, our sheriff's department has always been clearly supportive of the notion that the citizens can listen in on the system, and that continues with our current sheriff, Wayne Ivey, who is very strongly supportive of the partnership between his department and the people in the communities they serve., I firmly believe that they will make the choice not to encrypt routine traffic.

But that will require those of us who monitor to be responsible about what we hear on the radio. DON'T roll up on crime scenes. DON'T reveal what you hear on the radio. Not in any great detail, at least.

I'm sure I've made some positive points with the upper echelon of the SO by my own actions. I found a "lost" radio a year or two ago, one that
was actually sold on ebay, and it was still programmed for the Cape Canaveral PD which no longer exists. (An abortive, short term experiment) I took that radio directly to the Sheriff's Department on Merritt Island and after a conversation about it, and scanning in general, with the commander, gave them back the radio voluntarily. In return they paid me what I paid for the radio plus a little extra...>FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING.< During my conversation with him, (not the Sheriff himself, but a high ranking staff officer) it became clear that the attitude toward civilians being able to continue to listen in after the system transitions to P25 continues to be positive and favorable to us.

However, I think that a modest amount of pressure on the SO would probably be a good thing. An occasional email to the SO, respectfully asking for consideration of the scanner enthusiasts in the county, who are a community asset, could be helpful.

 

[batdude]

the #1 reason that BCSO would go secure? Broadcasting of their radio traffic in real time via the internet (or real time updates on various FB groups of major incidents that reveal tactical data). the #2 reason would be federal grant money that requires it. #3 would be L3Harris pushing it hard - politically. I concur with Elroy - I have chatted with the Sheriff personally about this - and his response was exactly what is typed above... something to to effect of "not on my watch" was his comment.

 

[RadioTech16261]

Brevard County P25 Migration is now pushed for year ahead on 2025

 

[batdude]

this is what a system designed for 25khz operation does in a narrow-ish (12.5khz) era. it destroys everything around it. 2025 isn't soon enough. that system was installed around 1993-1994 or so. How it is still in operation after 25 years is a tribute to the electrical tape and coat hangars applied by the technicians to keep it running. these circles are what happens when the Brevard system keys up a single freq of their system. Pics taken about 30 seconds apart.

 

[srich10]

this is what a system designed for 25khz operation does in a narrow-ish (12.5khz) era. it destroys everything around it. 2025 isn't soon enough. that system was installed around 1993-1994 or so. How it is still in operation after 25 years is a tribute to the electrical tape and coat hangars applied by the technicians to keep it running. these circles are what happens when the Brevard system keys up a single freq of their system. Pics taken about 30 seconds apart.

View attachment 85322

Wow!!

I can remember many nights on St Lucie County’s Motorola Type II Smartzone system before they went crypto’d P25, they’d have multiple frequencies getting splattered on with Brevard’s traffic on their system whenever a certain frequency In the talk pool on the SLCSO system opened up that I guess either co-shared frequencies geographically separated or was close enough In frequency that Brevard was splattering over onto their transmitter TX freq. When the CC directed them to open up RX on the clashing freq, the units were complaining up a storm.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Batdude, those captures you posted look like something is dreadfully wrong. No way that the sites are so badly tuned that the first harmonic is just 20 dB below carrier. If it were that bad then the FCC would have shut it down. Mastr III repeaters are cleaner than that. But even that doesn't really matter because they're using Mastr Vs in the system now, which most certainly can be assured to be delivering signals of sufficient purity that the first harmonic is easily 60 dB down or better. (Minimum standard for FCC type acceptance.) In fact the spec sheet says -70.

https://www.harris.com/sites/default/files/downloads/solutions/mastr-v-ip-simulcast-vhf-uhf-700-800-mhz.pdf

What are you using to capture those spectrums and has it been bench checked lately? Honestly those look like something that'd come out of a cheap SDR with all the selectivity and rejection performance of a bus full of nymphomaniacs.

I have spent MANY hours with a yagi antenna, watching the system sites using a Rohde & Schwarz FSEA 30 spectrum analyzer that met calibration specs, and cross-checked with a Tektronix 494AP, and never seen ANYTHING even remotely like those spectra.

Those spectra....I don't believe them. You've got intermod or receiver overload or a really cheap SDR there. Just flat out not buying it.

Yeah, I looked up the header stamps on those charts and it looks like you're using an SDR. Well, you might want to test that SDR using a good clean signal generator and verify its actual performance. I'm thinking it's kind of garbage-like at the moment. Now, granted, I expect a lot out of test equipment and spectrum analyzers. I've worked with some of the best stuff ever made and worked with it every day for seven straight years. I'm picky and critical. I've had equipment with a zero span noise floor under -160 dBm and signal generators with a 140 dB dynamic range. I will be critical of the perfomance of a cheap SDR.

As for when the Brevard system was installed, I remember clearly that when two Satellite Beach PD officers were killed on A1A by a drunk driver, I was at work that evening in Cocoa Beach and had to detour through the Atlantic Plaza around the scene. And I knew something had happened because I was listening in using a Motorola STX-821 with GPS 1.1 controller, scanning the site frequencies. ( This was before any trunking scanner or any surplus EDACS radios existed yet.) That was 1992. I believe the system became operational in 1989 or 1990.

My point is....don't use a cheap SDR to make a point based on a spectrum capture. If you are looking for a GOOD analyzer on the cheap, for 500 bucks or less get an Agilent 4406A transmitter tester which is a basic 3.5 GHz range spectrum analyzer (plus options) and it has a bandwidth resolution of 0.1 Hz at minimum span and a very clean low noise floor. (I don't recall that spec at the moment.)