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Caledonia situation

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jellotor

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Consider this a cross post from scanont...

A couple of our shooters were roughed up by native protestors in Caledonia today and one of our guys had his gear stolen, though it was later returned without the tape. Go figure. Anyway, our guys are slightly injured and shaken up, but ok. However, the OPP decided not to intervene despite a number of officers being in the vicinity. A resident of Caledonia intervened for our guys and they managed to get out.

How is this of relevance to scanner listeners? Well, if any of you have any 'whackerish' tendencies and have decided to take a trip down to Caledonia with a scanner and a digital camera, DON'T DO IT. The protestors don't have any qualms about attacking marked news units. They will also not have any qualms about attacking John Q. Public.

As for the OPP's role in all of this...well, don't count on the police in Caledonia protecting one side from the other or innocent bystanders from both sides.
 

hemi

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how would roughing up media personal, or anyone help their cause? Makes their whole stand-off/protest whatever the hell name you want to attatch to it look even more ugly then it has. What good is going to come off it?
 

jellotor

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They're not concerned about optics or media relations, never have been. I've tried to be fair about this but when it's my friends and co-workers out there getting attacked for just doing their jobs, it's a whole new ball game, so to speak.

What irks me is the OPP has been unable or unwilling to protect people (residents and media) who have every right to be in these areas...the 'law enforcement' in Caledonia seems to have been overtaken by the protestors...and they don't enforce any laws that have been passed in the Canadian parliament. This has the potential to both get much more serious and tie up the courts for years.

Ok. I'm done ranting.
 

hemi

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it pretty much makes me sick that the opp/goverment have let this go on. i hope the chap that got roughed up is o.k. hey what do you think would happen if i decided to protest the gas prices and shut down half town [thats patrolled by the opp], killed the hydro and and had a great ole time ripping up streets? some how i think my little protest would'nt last as long:mad:
 

rhutch

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jellotor said:
They're not concerned about optics or media relations, never have been. I've tried to be fair about this but when it's my friends and co-workers out there getting attacked for just doing their jobs, it's a whole new ball game, so to speak.

What irks me is the OPP has been unable or unwilling to protect people (residents and media) who have every right to be in these areas...the 'law enforcement' in Caledonia seems to have been overtaken by the protestors...and they don't enforce any laws that have been passed in the Canadian parliament. This has the potential to both get much more serious and tie up the courts for years.

Ok. I'm done ranting.
The OPP can't protect themselves, HAd to negotiate with the natives to have their own released last week, so I'm not sure what you want. The news media had them acting like storm troops the morning they went in there.

It's like Howard Hampton, with his big fat head on tv complianing about the inaction of the liberal government. This same jackass does nothing but ***** about Mike Harris's actions at Ipperwash. Pick one you, either have in-action or action, and action isn't going to be pretty.

Up until now the media has potrayed the Natives in a postive light, not talking about all the crime that is going on in Caledonian ie home invasions on prooerties never the river, and theft. Now that one of theirs gets beaten on they sing a different tune. I noticed a different flavor to the CHCH news last night, maybe they will start reporting what is actually happening without the politically correct spin on it.

When did the government start negotiating with criminals. Put it this way if any non-native had pulled 100th of the crap that is going on they would have locked you up or shot you. Everytime the natives pull this crap they get away with it and actually get rewarded for it. That is the reason that it is happening now and until the government stands up for the rule of law it will keep happening. This is the same government that says the people should be un armed, because we will be protected by the police. Well the truth just got shown on TV, 15 cops stand there and watch a person get assulted.

Another thing don't really blame it on the rank and file OPP officers their politcal masters have tied their hands and given them their rules of engagment.
 

Jay911

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The news report I read included a SUV full of four American tourists who were attacked and had their vehicle stolen as well. Another good reason to stay away.

At the risk of hijacking the thread or treading on dangerous ground, while I have respect for a lot of issues faced by native Canadians (being that I live in the vicinity of 3 or 4 nations), these terrorists (which is what they are) need to be dealt with.
 

jellotor

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rhutch said:
Up until now the media has potrayed the Natives in a postive light, not talking about all the crime that is going on in Caledonian ie home invasions on prooerties never the river, and theft. Now that one of theirs gets beaten on they sing a different tune. I noticed a different flavor to the CHCH news last night, maybe they will start reporting what is actually happening without the politically correct spin on it.
Well, no doubt we'd have a 'different flavour' to our stories after one of our own got attacked! Seriously though, I'm not sure if you've been watching consistently but our coverage has become, in the last two or three weeks, increasingly critical of the protestors. We're not out there calling them scumbags or terrorists (even if some of us feel like we should sometimes!) but we've been calling the protestors and the OPP on the 'double standard' for a while now. However, I'm not going to defend coverage of this story to you...if you don't agree with the way the story has been portrayed I can understand why.

I'm really not too sure what you expect the media to do...pick sides? That's not our purpose. If people start firebombing homes on the Six Nations (god forbid) we'll call that for what it is: a criminal action that has no place in this country. I agree with you 100%, however, that there is a double standard for law enforcement there and most of the reporters in Ontario who have worked this story would agree with you. Most have reported it as well. The incident with our shooter merely proves the point further.
 

rhutch

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No I don't expect the media to pick sides but from the beginning that's what all the media did, you even said so yourself (your coverage has changed in the last few weeks). I just expect the media to cover all sides fairly which has not always been done, I beilive its called balanced coverage. I totally understand that it's not the camera men or reporters that decides what goes on tv, they are just doing their jobs, just like the OPP (when they do something). There is no need for you to defend your coverage to me, and I don't expect it. I'm a big boy and I get my info from many sources, never have trusted just one. I do appreciate you coming on here and sharing your thought, views on what is going on. It finally looks like the Politically correct gloves are coming of and it's about time, no more portraying the natives as peace loving victims. I had to laugh at the coverage on earth day, they showed this group of natives burning tires. These are the great stewards of the earth and at one with nature, they are also the largest group of poachers around. By the way keep up the good work and be safe, it really doesn't matter if I like it or not, besides we all know that people who don't like your coverage are more apt to watch it, just like Howard Stern, people who like him listen an average of 30 min. people who dislike him listen approx 90 minutes.
 

jellotor

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Thanks for the kind words and the support. I must say that since Friday I've recieved more positive comments about the work that we *try* to do than ever before. I guess people really get uncomfortable when it's the media being attacked...it's the beginning of a slippery slope to chaos.
 

pathalogical

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jellotor said:
Consider this a cross post from scanont...

A couple of our shooters were roughed up by native protestors in Caledonia today and one of our guys had his gear stolen, though it was later returned without the tape. Go figure. Anyway, our guys are slightly injured and shaken up, but ok. However, the OPP decided not to intervene despite a number of officers being in the vicinity. A resident of Caledonia intervened for our guys and they managed to get out.

How is this of relevance to scanner listeners? Well, if any of you have any 'whackerish' tendencies and have decided to take a trip down to Caledonia with a scanner and a digital camera, DON'T DO IT. The protestors don't have any qualms about attacking marked news units. They will also not have any qualms about attacking John Q. Public.

As for the OPP's role in all of this...well, don't count on the police in Caledonia protecting one side from the other or innocent bystanders from both sides.
You are correct ! This is a classic case of scanner rule number 1: DON'T GO CHASING AFTER THE ACTION ! The fun part of our hobby is being able to listen from a safe distance, preferably, from the safety of being at home. It is tempting to "go see" especially when it's close to home or maybe close to where you work, but it's just not worth it. Staying home means staying safe.
 

xml

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Perhaps those in Hamilton/Caledon will be able to pick up some military frequencies when they finally decide to show up in town.
 

rhutch

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Look at it from the officers point of view. Ipperwash the only people that were charged were the police officers. The officers know that they will not be supported by management should they do something and it goes wrong. The other funny thing all three officers died before they got to testify at the inquiry, all in car crashes I believe.

Dalton now talks tough but just says he's not going to negotiate until they dismantle all the barricades, what does that mean? What if they don't , it will just stay the same? I like the threat from the Band chief, that if they try to arrest any of the protestors that took part in that crap last week it could cause trouble and they aren't going to co-operate to hand these criminals over. Dalton and the OPP brass have to grow a pair or step a side. I take it Caledonia has a policing contract with the OPP, they should take them to court for breach of contract as they are not providing policing (they are basically spectators).
 

jellotor

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Rumour has it that the policing contract for Haldimand County expires next year and the Hamilton Police Service has already been contacted to guage the interest in HPS providing policing to the county.
 

hemi

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jellotor said:
Rumour has it that the policing contract for Haldimand County expires next year and the Hamilton Police Service has already been contacted to guage the interest in HPS providing policing to the county.
Bye-Bye OPP for that area
 

rhutch

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I suggest any area that has a large native presence should think about getting rid of the OPP as they have proven that they are incapable of policing a native community. This is not a salm against the natives for the vast majority are law abiding citizens, the OPP leadership seems unable to deal with the criminals amoung them.
 

jellotor

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rhutch said:
I suggest any area that has a large native presence should think about getting rid of the OPP as they have proven that they are incapable of policing a native community. This is not a salm against the natives for the vast majority are law abiding citizens, the OPP leadership seems unable to deal with the criminals amoung them.
That is actually two different things. Haldimand County is policed by the OPP and 6 Nations is policed by either an OPP administered program or a First Nations police service. In any event, 6 Nations police and the OPP in Haldimand are organizationally and functionally different. In fact, during this whole debacle there have been 'liason officers' from 6Nat in Caledonia...and I've never been able to guage from the townspeople how they feel about that idea.

But the gist of your post is on point. Technically speaking, however, Haldimand County is no more a native community than Toronto.
 

mancow

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What/why are they protesting?

It seems like here in the States we hear absolutely nothing about Canada, ever. It's like it doesn't even exist to our media.
 
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