California OES re-numbering

E5911

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It appears the Cal OES is beginning to re-number thier apparatus based on thier location. The numbering will be corresponding to the OES region, the ICS resource type and possibly the number of rigs in the region. The photo shows a newly delivered Type 3 to San Miguel Fire now numbered 6308oes6308.jpg
 

gabrielm

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That would make sense, because Fullerton Fire just got a new type 3 rig, which is OES 1313.
 

es93546

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It used to be very random, I think with 100 and 200 series assignments. Strike teams are numbered according to agency and location. It makes a lot of sense to come up with something that reflects location. I'm a little surprised the engine type is not the lead number, which is being adopted by a lot of agencies. This is similar to BLM numbering where the apparatus type is the second digit.
 

E5911

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Don't forget, there were 100 engines, all type 1 or 2. Now there is at least 85 Type 6s being delivered, and 50 or so Type 3 along with over 100 Type 1 engines and a host of other equipment, 6 hazmat units, Comm Vehicles, USAR vehicles.
The system works pretty good and its a Win Win for hosting agencies. Nothing like it in the US except maybe MABAS
 

K6CDO

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I'm not sure if the logic holds up:
Rancho Cucamonga FD has OES type 3 OES8637.
8637 is not one of the new ones. I suspect at some point it may be renumbered to reflect the newer designation system.
 

KK6ZTE

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Don't forget, there were 100 engines, all type 1 or 2. Now there is at least 85 Type 6s being delivered, and 50 or so Type 3 along with over 100 Type 1 engines and a host of other equipment, 6 hazmat units, Comm Vehicles, USAR vehicles.
The system works pretty good and its a Win Win for hosting agencies. Nothing like it in the US except maybe MABAS
Most local departments around here want to be rid of theirs. Some already have returned them.
 

es93546

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Don't forget, there were 100 engines, all type 1 or 2. Now there is at least 85 Type 6s being delivered, and 50 or so Type 3 along with over 100 Type 1 engines and a host of other equipment, 6 hazmat units, Comm Vehicles, USAR vehicles.
The system works pretty good and its a Win Win for hosting agencies. Nothing like it in the US except maybe MABAS
Type 6's surprise me. I don't think the USFS has one left in the state. They used to run Type 6 patrol units, but they were hard on some of the vehicles they were using them in, most were slip ons at that time. Now they use Type 7's for patrol. They are much less expensive to purchase and the mileage rate is much lower. The BLM has less than a handful of Type 6's across the state. I think the National Park Service has several Type 6's. I don't think the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has any Type 6's left in California. In urban interface areas they aren't as useful. In other U.S. states, the USFS runs Type 6's on most ranger districts, except some have Type 4's, which aren't as useful as Type 3's in urban interface. Ranger districts with urban proximity or with towns/cities of 10,000 to 15,000 and greater usually have a least one Type 3.
 

E5911

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got no idea except this, Years ago when I lived in Montana, state forestry and USFS all had Type 5s and 6s because they said it was eaiser to maneuver in the timber. Back then urban Interface was not a thing like it is now, we burned homes but not to this frequency.
Also Northern Cal chases a lot of grass fires in the foothills of the Sierra-Sac area. Lots of departments in Yolo, Sacracmento etc have them.
 

E5911

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As to the engines being returned, I can believe that, these days its a commitment that some jurisdictions don't want to take on just to have a extra engine
 

KK6ZTE

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Well, someone wants them, the number of apparatus is increasing.
I think you'll find them going to departments with multiple OES rigs.

It's hard for smaller departments to justify the a unique rig that probably doesn't match anything else they have, and that have durability/build quality issues according to the mechanics I've talked to. Which is why I qualified my statement with the combined "most" and "local" rather than a blanket statement.

If you've got a department like LA County that's getting a ton of them, then you have fleet commonality and technician experience on your side.

As far as USFS, the LPF has multiple patrols running around. On one of our recent fires, when Type 3s were scarce, the ECC was requesting Foxtrot strike teams as they were all that was available.
 

monitor142

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Orange County Fire Authority just received some of the new OES T-6's. I'm sure they will be fine staffing these rather than their own for out of county ST requests.
 

es93546

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As far as USFS, the LPF has multiple patrols running around. On one of our recent fires, when Type 3s were scarce, the ECC was requesting Foxtrot strike teams as they were all that was available.
Yes they do and they are all Type 7 rigs as far as I know. Most are 75 gallon units, although the minimum for a Type 6 engine is 150 gallons, so a Type 7 could go all the way up to a 149 gallon tank. The higher capacity Type 7's are generally 125 gallon units. However, the 125 gallon slip on units tend to overload or wear out 3/4 ton pickups. That is why the USFS has dropped the water capacity of patrols since about 1990 or earlier.

I've never heard a Foxtrot strike team being called for suppression. Now I know of at least one instance where someone has. It is rare, but I've heard of them ordered for prevention purposes. I used to drive a 125 gallon unit, but was given a 200 gallon full Type 6 one ton 4WD one year. It had duellies on the rear and was a bit wide for some of the narrow roads I drove it on. It had the full contractors box and that was great.
 

es93546

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got no idea except this, Years ago when I lived in Montana, state forestry and USFS all had Type 5s and 6s because they said it was eaiser to maneuver in the timber. Back then urban Interface was not a thing like it is now, we burned homes but not to this frequency.
Also Northern Cal chases a lot of grass fires in the foothills of the Sierra-Sac area. Lots of departments in Yolo, Sacracmento etc have them.
Interesting, the Type 5's I've seen look very similar to Type 4's. Type 5's have a minimum 400 gallon capacity. Type 4's are very big rigs and have more water, but lower pump capacities, i.e. fewer gallons per minute and less pressure. The Type 4's have a lot of water and are used in places where conserving water is needed. Thus, Region 4 (Great Basin GACC) probably uses the bulk of them. I know that Type 3's can fit into places the Types 3-5 cannot. However, they have to make a lot of runs to water tenders and other sources. Sometimes the Type 3's don't have to fit into tight spots, they just lay down a lot of hose to access the tight spots. Type 3 and 4 engines have a high per mile cost as compared to Type 6's. The Fixed Ownership Rate (FOR that pays for the vehicle purchase) is much higher as well. Places with a lower fire workload often can't afford the 3/4's. However, the Type 3-5's carry a larger crew, 5 at full staffing where the 6's only have 3 in most cases, unless they opt for an extended cab. Each type has advantages and disadvantages.
 

es93546

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I think you'll find them going to departments with multiple OES rigs.

It's hard for smaller departments to justify the a unique rig that probably doesn't match anything else they have, and that have durability/build quality issues according to the mechanics I've talked to. Which is why I qualified my statement with the combined "most" and "local" rather than a blanket statement.

If you've got a department like LA County that's getting a ton of them, then you have fleet commonality and technician experience on your side.

As far as USFS, the LPF has multiple patrols running around. On one of our recent fires, when Type 3s were scarce, the ECC was requesting Foxtrot strike teams as they were all that was available.
I agree with the multiple OES rig observation. Some rural departments I'm familiar with had them 30 years ago don't have them anymore. However, these are the larger rural departments that have high property values to protect. They have been able to afford a lot of apparatus. Some rural departments down in Inyo County still have some, I think. I think Big Pine and Lone Pine may have one, but I've been retired now for 21 years and I've lost touch on a lot I used to be frequently exposed to.
 

swylie

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The rigs OES are getting are dubbed Super Sixes. Type-6 with more water. The Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit of the USFS is removing one of their Type-3 Engines and replacing it with a Type-6. It makes it more maneuverable in the area up there.
 

norcalscan

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You'll likely be hearing more OES task forces forming up vs strike teams. A Task Force with either four T3's and a water tender (this has been popular the last two years,) or two T3, two T6 and a WT is a pretty formidable punch in the WUI where you're patrolling for starts in a neighborhood ahead of the fire, or fire-front-following through numerous neighborhoods. That's a great swiss army knife of options.
 
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