California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS)

scannerboy02

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I should clarify the list I posted in no way indicates a CRIS site will 100% be installed at any of those locations. They are just some locations to keep an ear on based on recent microwave activities.
 

scannerboy02

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I found the following information posted on the California State Firefighters' Association website.


"In Fiscal Year 2019-20 the California Legislature approved a proposal by the California Office of Emergency Services (CalOES) to construct the California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS) to serve the communications needs of the State’s public safety agencies.

Over the course of the past two years, CalOES has leveraged the support and input from multiple state agencies/stakeholders to make substantial progress in deploying the system. Today, the system includes 26 operational sites dispersed throughout the state and over the course of calendar year 2021, an additional 20 sites will be installed.

Initial planning has begun with partners such as Los Angeles Regional Interoperable Communication System and Sacramento Regional Radio Communications System to extend the capability with system-to-system interconnection. CalOES has established a secure interface between CRIS and the Critical Connect interoperability platform and stands ready to make interconnections with other regional interoperability systems."


So far 26 sites have been identified in the Radio Reference database (this would match up with the information above) so it would seem, as we are approaching the end of 2021, somewhere in the neighborhood of ~20~ additional sites may still need to be located. Now I know these things don't stay on schedule so I'm rather sure the actual number is less than 20 but it's still likely many more than the 26 sites currently listed in the database are on the air.

Here is a link to a Google Map I put together with the state microwave sites that have been reported to the FCC as built since 2017 (I'll probably go back to 2015 as time permits). While not all of these sites are CRIS related it will give you an idea of some places to checkout while looking for new sites.
 

AM909

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...
Here is a link to a Google Map I put together with the state microwave sites that have been reported to the FCC as built since 2017 (I'll probably go back to 2015 as time permits). While not all of these sites are CRIS related it will give you an idea of some places to checkout while looking for new sites.
Nice. I see that much of the LA basin is empty. Is the map only of newly-constructed microwave sites? New CRIS sites could also be added to existing microwave sites. E.g., Johnstone Peak (KDX80) and La Habra (WAA777) are likely locations IMO.
 

norcalscan

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While not all of these sites are CRIS related it will give you an idea of some places to checkout while looking for new sites.
Correct, the state microwave network is far more dense than this google map, and is not there solely to support CRIS. You'll see FCC updates and records for microwave sites all the time for upgrades to radios/bands/bandwidth that have nothing to do with CRIS. Don't get distracted by normal day-to-day operations/upkeep of the state microwave network. That network has different goals and missions than LMR support and LMR sites (including CRIS) do not have to be on a site with state microwave.

Focus on existing CRIS sites, and the CRIS' mission statement of what they are trying to cover, mobile coverage for 90% of population, 60% of geographic. Find the holes that help them succeed in their mission statement. That's where the 20 more sites will be.
 

AM909

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CRIS do[es] not have to be on a site with state microwave.
That seems kind of unlikely, doesn't it? They need some kind of backhaul, and the cost of adding another node to their own network has got to be cheaper/better than paying a carrier, doesn't it? Maybe something that's out of reach of the existing network and would require another site in the way, if there is such a thing, as big as their network has become, though I still think they would rather add another site in between.
 

norcalscan

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That seems kind of unlikely, doesn't it?
Likely unlikely. However I'm trying to get the point across, the tail does not wag the dog. Microwave doesn't dictate LMR. LMR goes where LMR needs to go. If a new backhaul is needed, so be it. IP can traverse many solutions. Agreed, likely the backhaul will be RF, or have RF redundancy. But especially as we start filling more rural holes, the microwave network gets far less dense and might not land where the LMR is needed to accomplish the goals of CRIS.
 

scannerboy02

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The map I posted is only microwave sites that have been reported as BUILT going back to 2017, so far. These required notifications can be for modifications to existing sites as well as new installations.

They have many, many, many more applications that cover just about every known CRIS site to date but a number of those sites have not yet been reported to the FCC as being built. This doesn't mean they haven't been built it just means they haven't reported it to the FCC yet.

As for the separation between LMR sites and microwave sites, I have yet to see a P25 trunking site that doesn't have some kind of microwave link to it. This doesn't mean it can't happen, I just haven't seen one yet. And I've been to many, many, many, many sites, this is what I do when I go on vacation. While others go to see the sights, I go to see the sites.
 
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es93546

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Likely unlikely. However I'm trying to get the point across, the tail does not wag the dog. Microwave doesn't dictate LMR. LMR goes where LMR needs to go. If a new backhaul is needed, so be it. IP can traverse many solutions. Agreed, likely the backhaul will be RF, or have RF redundancy. But especially as we start filling more rural holes, the microwave network gets far less dense and might not land where the LMR is needed to accomplish the goals of CRIS.
In some locations, the Caltrans, CHP, CA DFW, Cal Fire and CA State Park systems rely on repeater sites that are some distance away from the state's microwave backbone. Some of these sites will never have microwave capability, mostly due to the lack of commercial power. Having that power added in the future is highly unlikely due to cost, land use restrictions and land ownership. In Mono County, there is one site lacking commercial power with a cell phone site and the state's microwave system present. Apparently, and I could be wrong, a combination of better solar collection, better batteries and more efficient microwave has made this possible. There is also a very large propane tank farm there, although it is far smaller than it was when the state first built their facilities there in the early 1980's. However, that leaves sites where the scenic intrusion of microwave towers/dishes is not allowed. A couple of these in the eastern Sierra have UHF links to tie them back into the microwave backbone, but not all. This could be similar in some urban areas, but is likely more the situation in rural areas where I'm far more familiar with the facilities. What seems very possible in the view of urban residents, who make up 95% of California's population, is not possible in rural areas with far more rugged terrain.
 
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mmckenna

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In Mono County, there is one site lacking commercial power with a cell phone site and the state's microwave system present.
If you are talking about Sweetwater, that's a pretty amazing site. I've been there a few times. Big propane tank farm, and a lot of solar panels. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find the photos I took last time I was there.
 

mcjones2013

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mmckenna

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Is it this site?
Yes. Last time I was there, a bit of snow was still hanging on.

No utilities at all. Power was primarily solar with propane generators as backup. I can't remember if there was a small wind turbine there. The site is pretty exposed to some nasty weather, so not sure it would stand up to it. Camped down below there in late spring and it was dropping into the teens at night.

Microwave coming in/out. No phone lines, no utility power.
Cell carriers, military (Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training site is across the valley), and state/local government up there.

Clear shot down to Conway Summit above Mono Lake to the south. From Conway, down to Crestview and continuing on down south.
 

norcalscan

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In Mono County, there is one site lacking commercial power with a cell phone site and the state's microwave system present.
A couple more state microwave sites on that eastern route are solar as well. Rogers Peak in Inyo (google), and Leviathan Peak in Alpine (google). Good beautiful country out there.
 

es93546

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If you are talking about Sweetwater, that's a pretty amazing site. I've been there a few times. Big propane tank farm, and a lot of solar panels. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find the photos I took last time I was there.
Is it this site?
Yup, you two know your sites and I'm impressed. Sweetwater's line of sight to the south, is well known. I can easily get into the 146.94/146.34 ham repeater on Silver Peak, NE of Bishop from there.

I've also brought up the ham repeater and the Mono Sheriff's repeater on Sweetwater from areas of Reno as well. Note: at the time I brought up the Mono S.O. repeater on Sweetwater I was a Mono S.O RACES member and was helping the sergeant in charge of RACES with some possible new repeater locations to fill in some blanks in coverage. Sweetwater can also receive a couple TV stations from Sacramento (via Sonora Pass) directly with no loss of signal. The local TV translator district used to provide CBS and NBC from Sweetwater. Sweetwater's coverage to the northeast is crappy, but its coverage of the West Walker River canyon is amazing. There are a lot of accidents, icing problems on U.S. 395, rockfalls and wildland fire incidents in this canyon making 800 MHz Caltrans coverage quite critical. CHP even had problems in this canyon prior to installing a remote base up there.

A couple more state microwave sites on that eastern route are solar as well. Rogers Peak in Inyo (google), and Leviathan Peak in Alpine (google). Good beautiful country out there.
I've been to Leviathan Peak many times due to its easy highway vehicle access. I last drove there about 20 years ago as traveling from northern Mono County to Carson Pass on CA Highway 88, it is faster and far easier to drive to south of Gardnerville at the 7-11-Centerville shortcut over to Nevada Highway 88. This due to the steep grade and curves of Monitor Pass. The microwave path as I knew it, went from the Pine Grove Electronic Site over to Scout Peak, SW of Lake Tahoe, bypassing Leviathan. At Rogers Peak there wasn't any microwave and the state's microwave was at the Cottonwood Electronic Site. I just checked my map of the state's public safety microwave system and it shows hops from each of these sites and Sweetwater having dead end microwave links to solar powered facilities. The CHP used to link their remote base on Sweetwater to the microwave at Conway on 72 MHz. It had polarized antennas at each site and I picked up the signal from Conway down in the Mammoth Lakes area from whatever was the backside emission from that antenna. I could not pick up the 72 MHz signal from Sweetwater, which was aimed closer to where I was, but apparently the ridge that Conway Summit is on blocked it. In any case I was able to receive the CHP mobile side from Conway Summit all the way to the state line. I was very pleased about this. Now, it is no more :(

The map also shows one more hop from/to Pine Grove. There is now a commercial power site at "Topaz Peak" north of Leviathan, just slightly in Nevada. It links directly to Scout Peak. I also see many dead end microwave paths all over the state, which might be sites without commercial power.

Yes, it's all beautiful country. I had a choice of what jobs to select when I transferred into California from New Mexico. I was quite picky as to what locations I would transfer to. I'm rather happy to have the Sierra Nevada Crest between us and the rest of the state and I picked the places I would accept jobs to based on that. Now 40 years later that decision proved to be the right one, for me at least. YMMV. There are other places in California that are very beautiful as well.
 

franks_ham

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A few new TG and RID combos popped up today on my local site. Anyone else with SDR's/etc., running see these today? If so, where at?

RID range 7694xx to 7696xx. TG's 501xx range.
RID 3001 came up on CHP Val-Gold (No audio).
RID 439 keeps popping up on TG143 occasionally throughout the past few weeks, no audio on it either.

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

franks_ham

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I'll just make a few notes of what I've seen in the last 24 hours (the oldest timestamp is 0531 on 10/26/21).

RID 7005 - NO TG listed
RID 769157 - NO TG listed
RID 769485 - NO TG listed
RID 113 - TG 130
RID 298 - TG 135 & 136
RID 768876 - TG50152
All ID's below were seen on TG50151 (TDMA)
RID 70051
RID 769136
RID 769143
RID 769144
RID 769149
RID 769155
RID 769429
RID 769432
RID 769483
RID 769517
RID 769568
RID 769572
RID 769574
RID 769576

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

norcalscan

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Listening to Tuscan Buttes, yesterday had the following:
RID's 276, 288 and 290 all hopping onto TG136, with a few E transmissions it appears.

Tuscan, Bloomer and Southfork are not connected to the core yet.
 

franks_ham

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Listening to Tuscan Buttes, yesterday had the following:
RID's 276, 288 and 290 all hopping onto TG136, with a few E transmissions it appears.

Tuscan, Bloomer and Southfork are not connected to the core yet.
I wonder if RID298 on TG136 was just late to the show then and used the wrong site?

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

scannerboy02

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Tuscan, Bloomer and Southfork are not connected to the core yet.
When you say this what are you using as a reference? The last time I was up to Bloomer it was showing connected, Tuscan and Southfork were in site trunking.
 

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franks_ham

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I see the state of California has applied to the FCC, for a few centralized trunking licenses in the VHF-High Band area. Are these new sites planned to be part of CRIS TRS?
Noted by @scannerboy02 back on 9/27, was it? Should be for the Eastern Sierra's as was heavily discussed on Page 29/30...

Regards,

-Frank C.
 
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