California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS)

[officer_415]

It would be nice to see California make tiers similar to these for those who would want to join the system.

Again, Mono and Nevada counties...

 

[scannerboy02]

Again, Mono and Nevada counties...

Yep, this is a great example of a tier 3.

I have yet to see any examples of a tier 2 or 4 being offered as an option, although these kinds of things were asked for during the November PSRSPC meeting.

It should also be said that seeking out partnerships BEFORE building standalone CRIS sites in the same coverage area would save a lot of the money spent to build the sites and then decommission them AFTER a partnership has been made. The state of Ohio made this mistake and a lot of funding was lost that could have been used to build sites in other areas.

 

[scannerboy02]

I am in Sacramento until the middle of May and I took a drive up to the Howell Mtn Lookout (Placer County) and Union Hill (El Dorado County) sites today.

The VHF Howell Mtn Lookout site is on the air.
WSDG621
HOWELL MTN LOOKOUT, 2.5 MI SW OF
COLFAX, CA
PLACER County
39° 04' 02.1",-120° 58' 21.5"
Site: 1.121 NAC=9D1
Neighbor: BEE00.9D2-1.21 ; Wolf Mountain
Neighbor: BEE00.9D2-1.22 ; Banner Mountain
Neighbor: BEE00.9D2-1.23 ; Mount Howell
Neighbor: BEE00.9D2-1.31 ; Blue Canyon
Channel 6-31: 151.0775 CC
Channel 6-1237: 154.0925 SCC
Channel 6-1348: 154.37 SCC

The Union Hill site is not on the air yet.

 

[officer_415]

The VHF Howell Mtn Lookout site is on the air.

Is Howell Mtn 700 MHz still on the air?

 

[scannerboy02]

Is Howell Mtn 700 MHz still on the air?

Yes

 

[officer_415]

Yes

Interesting. They've been decommissioning 700 MHz at the other sites where VHF has been coming online (Sugarloaf, Seigler, South Fork)

 

[scannerboy02]

I've also noticed that several Auburn, North Sac and South Sac CHP units that I've passed are still running the 700 MHz VRS even though they are on CRIS.

I heard Air-23 mention that they were having CRIS issues during a pursuit last night in the Roseville area.

 

[officer_415]

Mono County is looking at a tentative go-live date in October. If people in the area could please keep an ear out for testing activity, we have no talkgroup information yet.

 

[2wayfreq]

I've also noticed that several Auburn, North Sac and South Sac CHP units that I've passed are still running the 700 MHz VRS even though they are on CRIS.

I heard Air-23 mention that they were having CRIS issues during a pursuit last night in the Roseville area.

It's possible that there are altitude related Phase 2 Simulcast issues that plague aircraft radios. I have seen this before.

 

[djpaulino]

Is Red Mt. Site San Diego County active? Also is Santiago Peak active? No seeing the scanner locking on any of them. I'm using a 996P2. TIA

 

[LAflyer]

Yes Santiago (site 1-30) is on the air with control channel 773.56875.

 

[norcalscan]

It's possible that there are altitude related Phase 2 Simulcast issues that plague aircraft radios. I have seen this before.

Did I miss something that there is simulcast PII CRIS in the Sac area? I thought they were all still independent sites and not simulcast (multiple sites using same freqs) but I have not been paying that close attention. However, if true, let me pop some popcorn and watch PSC and CHP Telecom and CHP Chief Pilot hash this one out.

You think I'm kidding, but like others said, the state is big, there are big fiefdoms throughout, and the holders of the keys to the system aren't quite the most...talented...of (gestures wildly) this.

 

[markclark]

Did I miss something that there is simulcast PII CRIS in the Sac area? I thought they were all still independent sites and not simulcast (multiple sites using same freqs) but I have not been paying that close attention. However, if true, let me pop some popcorn and watch PSC and CHP Telecom and CHP Chief Pilot hash this one out.

You think I'm kidding, but like others said, the state is big, there are big fiefdoms throughout, and the holders of the keys to the system aren't quite the most...talented...of (gestures wildly) this.

Does your last paragraph refer to the Truckee CHP vote-steer system?

 

[norcalscan]

Does your last paragraph refer to the Truckee CHP vote-steer system?

"gestures wildly" I thought covered it. But yeah, if it's outside of a very basic template or wheelhouse, things tend to start falling apart pretty quickly. Programming a TDFM9000 onto a trunk system and understanding the nuance of all of that, is probably one of those "outside their wheelhouse" moments.

Heck, I thought they'd have fixed the CalFire load in 2026 after 2025's fiasco of programming the TA button on their mobile mic right below the PTT. I know, that's a petty jab, except they twisted the knife by enabling Persistent Talk Around in RES. So naturally, a nomex gloved hand grabs the mic off the clip, hits TA without even realizing it, and starts talking direct to ECC. And any change in channel or zone or anything, the TA stays on, until explicitely turned back off with the TA button, because it's persistent. So a month after 2025's load went out in my unit, engines started dropping off local net left and right and ECC is fed up they can't hear anyone. It's still there going into 2026 fire season. "gestures wildly"

 

[f40ph]

Heck, I thought they'd have fixed the CalFire load in 2026 after 2025's fiasco of programming the TA button on their mobile mic right below the PTT. I know, that's a petty jab, except they twisted the knife by enabling Persistent Talk Around in RES. So naturally, a nomex gloved hand grabs the mic off the clip, hits TA without even realizing it, and starts talking direct to ECC. And any change in channel or zone or anything, the TA stays on, until explicitely turned back off with the TA button, because it's persistent. So a month after 2025's load went out in my unit, engines started dropping off local net left and right and ECC is fed up they can't hear anyone. It's still there going into 2026 fire season. "gestures wildly"

This is an example of what they've been doing for years. They keep goofing up the settings. A few years ago, we STOPPED using the actual CalFire BK codeplug created by OES. They just can't keep it straight. Every other year a message goes out to reprogram because they caught xyz setting was wrong (again). This decision has saved us MANY man-hours of reprogramming when a new goof is uncovered.

 

[mharris]

Just my personal opinion, they're trading one crappy system (digital portables dependent on extenders with limited range, talking to analog mobiles resulting in garbage audio) for another (P25 system with insufficient coverage, LTE backup but there's a delay in switching). Plus the interoperability issues @scannerboy02 mentioned.

CRIS is basically an upgrade for CHP's portables, but a downgrade for their mobiles.

Very well said. Hopefully, once coverage is improved, the mobiles will also be an upgrade. The interop issues are another story altogether.

 

[mharris]

Yep, one large system makes sense.
But California is a large state with some very complex topography. Getting coverage to all these smaller agencies, even the state ones, is a monumental challenge.

There's a lot of silos that need to be knocked down, and some local agencies don't like to play well with others. I looked at moving our users onto it, but it wasn't going to be cheap, and there was some internal pushback.

The CRIS system will continue to grow, and more and more agencies will join. It's going to be a long, slow process. It'll take a lot of different approaches to make this all work.

It has been interesting to see how quickly it's grown in the last few years, though.

Having been an Ohio MARCS user much of my career in Ohio's largest city that migrated to MARCS, I can attest to the benefits of joining a single, statewide network. Interoperability was fantastic, with most Ohio public safety agencies being on one system.

Having retired and moved to the Bay Area and joined a local department out here, I can also attest that mmckenna's statement is 100% accurate beyond what I could've imagined.

The topography in CA is NOTHING like the Midwest. My house is between two giant hills at the bottom of the valley, severely limiting my ability to enjoy the radio hobby. I can't hear much of anything from my house, but if I take a short walk up the hill, I can hear everything. California is probably the most difficult state for comms, in general.

 

[mharris]

I agree with what you are saying. If Colorado can build a statewide system with its topography California can definitely get it done.

Here in Ohio when the state was expanding the MARCS system they developed several tiers for agencies to join.

Tier 1. The agency purchased devices and paid a monthly fee to get statewide access to the system.

Tier 2. The agency signed a long-term agreement to pay subscriber fees to join the statewide system and the state built the infrastructure needed for coverage.

Tier 3. The agency built the infrastructure and turned it over to the state for a credit on subscriber fees.

Tier 4. The agency built the infrastructure and as long as they continue to maintain the infrastructure they will never pay a subscriber fee.

Our city (and county) went with tier 4. We built the infrastructure and have complete control over it. As long as we keep our sites maintained to the level in the agreement we signed with the state our city will never pay a subscriber fee to access the system statewide. We can also decide to terminate the contract and separate our sites from the state system if we choose.

It would be nice to see California make tiers similar to these for those who would want to join the system.

Yes, this tiered system worked very well. I was a part of it for 26+ years (pre and post MARCS integration).

 

[NorCalrescue]

Having been an Ohio MARCS user much of my career in Ohio's largest city that migrated to MARCS, I can attest to the benefits of joining a single, statewide network. Interoperability was fantastic, with most Ohio public safety agencies being on one system.

Having retired and moved to the Bay Area and joined a local department out here, I can also attest that mmckenna's statement is 100% accurate beyond what I could've imagined.

The topography in CA is NOTHING like the Midwest. My house is between two giant hills at the bottom of the valley, severely limiting my ability to enjoy the radio hobby. I can't hear much of anything from my house, but if I take a short walk up the hill, I can hear everything. California is probably the most difficult state for comms, in general.

AB-2370 is making its way through the California legislature that is looking to do exactly this. There are a number of agencies who are not in favor of a statewide system so this should be an interesting topic for us here in CA to monitor.

 

[officer_415]

AB-2370 is making its way through the California legislature that is looking to do exactly this. There are a number of agencies who are not in favor of a statewide system so this should be an interesting topic for us here in CA to monitor.

So basically they're trying to mandate that all state agencies go through CalOES PSC for their communications?