call sign?

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mrova

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Chesterfield, VA
Didn't know if I should post this in the general scanning, thought I'd start here. When I listen to the VA state police, the dispatcher will repeat the channel (?) call sign...I most often hear the dispatch say something, and then will say "KIC-365" (I think it's KIC, could be something else). But, anyway, why do they say that and I don't hear the call signs on the other stuff I listen to, such as the county police or fire and rescue/ems, etc.?
Thanks,
SV
 

n5ims

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Quite often the ID is done on the repeater (in morse code) and not by any user(s). On trunking systems, this is done on the physical channel, not any virtual channel and not normally audible while scanning normally.
 

jim202

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New Orleans region
believe it or not, all stations should be giving the call sign for the radio / frequency they are using at the
end of a series of transmissions. this is not bull, but right out of the FCC rules and regulations. the
problem is that most of the dispatch centers you may listen to never follow the part 90 rules. One
of these days, they may just receive a visit from one of the FCC field engineers and find out just
how costly not giving the station call sign can be.

The other major problem with a good many of the public safety radios in use today is that the
station license is probably out of date and has lapsed. As I travel around the country, that is
one thing I like to look at when in the dispatch centers. Some place the FCC license should be
posted in plain site. Many time I find the licenses are not posted and if they are, they are
many years out of date. Most of the people who's names are on the license have long since
left and no one took over the responsibility to make sure the FCC licenses are current.

So you may even hear a call sign given, that when you search the FCC database, it isn't there.

Jim



Didn't know if I should post this in the general scanning, thought I'd start here. When I listen to the VA state police, the dispatcher will repeat the channel (?) call sign...I most often hear the dispatch say something, and then will say "KIC-365" (I think it's KIC, could be something else). But, anyway, why do they say that and I don't hear the call signs on the other stuff I listen to, such as the county police or fire and rescue/ems, etc.?
Thanks,
SV
 

Stick0413

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Messages
1,118
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Hopewell, VA
believe it or not, all stations should be giving the call sign for the radio / frequency they are using at the
end of a series of transmissions. this is not bull, but right out of the FCC rules and regulations. the
problem is that most of the dispatch centers you may listen to never follow the part 90 rules. One
of these days, they may just receive a visit from one of the FCC field engineers and find out just
how costly not giving the station call sign can be.

The other major problem with a good many of the public safety radios in use today is that the
station license is probably out of date and has lapsed. As I travel around the country, that is
one thing I like to look at when in the dispatch centers. Some place the FCC license should be
posted in plain site. Many time I find the licenses are not posted and if they are, they are
many years out of date. Most of the people who's names are on the license have long since
left and no one took over the responsibility to make sure the FCC licenses are current.

So you may even hear a call sign given, that when you search the FCC database, it isn't there.

Jim
Actually from my understanding is as long as it is done via Morse code or on trunking systems then they do not have to do it after every transmission. Another thing is in a major incident you really wouldn't want to have to say the call sign every time.. That could tie up air time and on a major incident you can use all the air time you can get sometimes.
 

W4UVV

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Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
Callsign non-compliance

Actually from my understanding is as long as it is done via Morse code or on trunking systems then they do not have to do it after every transmission. Another thing is in a major incident you really wouldn't want to have to say the call sign every time.. That could tie up air time and on a major incident you can use all the air time you can get sometimes.
With the possible two exceptions you listed plus aviation voice comms jim202 is correct. There may be one or two more exceptions that immediately don't come to mind.

FCC rules and regulations tend to be rigid and any exceptions are specifically documented in the regulation. My guess is 99% of FCC licensed users are not in compliance with the callsign identification regulatory section. The very few exceptions in Va. are analog VSP, VDOT and possibly analog Forestry. Making matters worse occasionally a user's license has expired but he continues to operate. Sometimes a user subsequently requests the FCC modify his license and for unknown reason(s) the FCC issues that user a new callsign for basically the same current radio operation (i.e., Montgomery Co.).

Years ago the FCC required Amateur Radio Operators to post their licenses in a conspicuous location near the transmitter(transceiver)...even mobile. We additionally had to keep a hard copy log of our contacts...even operating mobile. The FCC didn't care that my name and address were prominently displayed for a possible later visit from a thief and I didn't want to do it. It was a FCC regulation. I had to comply. If a FCC rep was at a hamfest and saw your transceiver and no posted license in a conspicuous place in your vehicle, he would issue you a citation for non-compliance with a FCC letter notice of "show cause" that followed soon thereafter and usually involved a monetary fine with a threat of revoking the license. Thankfully those regulatory requirements eventually were removed.
 

mrova

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Location
Chesterfield, VA
thanks for the info...

...it just never made sense to me. I understand, I guess, the FCC and license issues/concerns. I just couldn't understand why it seemed that the state police were the only ones I hear giving their call sign. All the local police/fire departments don't seem to say theirs. Now, I have heard what I'm guessing is the morse code come across while scanning - I figured that was something related to the call sign for that channel.
The other thing I wondered was that maybe it was public service channels were "exempt" from doing this, because of the type of traffic they were dealing with. I have noticed that with the state police, when there seemed to be a critical incident going on, you didn't hear them take the time to give the call sign - then when things settled, they would start saying it again. Another question then, is there a required number of times they have to say the call sign? Is it technically supposed to be everytime they talk or every other time or a certain number of times per hour? And the other question, regarding the state police is, I only hear dispatch say the call sign...so, is it the call sign has to orginate from the "base" operation?
SV
 

Stick0413

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With the possible two exceptions you listed plus aviation voice comms jim202 is correct. There may be one or two more exceptions that immediately don't come to mind.

FCC rules and regulations tend to be rigid and any exceptions are specifically documented in the regulation. My guess is 99% of FCC licensed users are not in compliance with the callsign identification regulatory section. The very few exceptions in Va. are analog VSP, VDOT and possibly analog Forestry. Making matters worse occasionally a user's license has expired but he continues to operate. Sometimes a user subsequently requests the FCC modify his license and for unknown reason(s) the FCC issues that user a new callsign for basically the same current radio operation (i.e., Montgomery Co.).

Years ago the FCC required Amateur Radio Operators to post their licenses in a conspicuous location near the transmitter(transceiver)...even mobile. We additionally had to keep a hard copy log of our contacts...even operating mobile. The FCC didn't care that my name and address were prominently displayed for a possible later visit from a thief and I didn't want to do it. It was a FCC regulation. I had to comply. If a FCC rep was at a hamfest and saw your transceiver and no posted license in a conspicuous place in your vehicle, he would issue you a citation for non-compliance with a FCC letter notice of "show cause" that followed soon thereafter and usually involved a monetary fine with a threat of revoking the license. Thankfully those regulatory requirements eventually were removed.
Yeah that is basically what I was saying. Not that it wasn't required at all or anything. The reason I said what I said was basically he was making it sound like you had to do it via voice no matter what, Morse or the data stream in a trunking system didn't matter. Also the little thing at the end I wrote wasn't much at all. I was basically referring to the stations that used the trunking data ID or the Morse ID. Also in the end even on a station that doesn't ID through either of them I don't think the FCC would say a thing if they didn't ID at the end of every transmission in a major emergency (even though it is still technically required). If and (most likely) when the VSP stops simulcasting on the legacy freqs I wonder if they will stop IDing (it would have to die slowly I know because it is ingrained in the dispatchers to do so) or will they just keep doing it.
 

W4UVV

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...it just never made sense to me. I understand, I guess, the FCC and license issues/concerns. I just couldn't understand why it seemed that the state police were the only ones I hear giving their call sign. All the local police/fire departments don't seem to say theirs. Now, I have heard what I'm guessing is the morse code come across while scanning - I figured that was something related to the call sign for that channel.
The other thing I wondered was that maybe it was public service channels were "exempt" from doing this, because of the type of traffic they were dealing with. I have noticed that with the state police, when there seemed to be a critical incident going on, you didn't hear them take the time to give the call sign - then when things settled, they would start saying it again. Another question then, is there a required number of times they have to say the call sign? Is it technically supposed to be everytime they talk or every other time or a certain number of times per hour? And the other question, regarding the state police is, I only hear dispatch say the call sign...so, is it the call sign has to orginate from the "base" operation?
SV
State radio equipped vehicles (i.e., vsp, vdot, forestry, dgif) are licensed generically usually for statewide operation and are supposed to give their department mobile id at the end of the final comm. Few do. VDOT does it right. The reason is department radio SOP that is enforced by management. Employees who do not comply are subject to administrative and punitive sanctions, i.e., noted on performance appraisal, verbal or written reprimands, etc. You can be sure it came from top down management years ago. Callsign compliance is common in all analog VDOT comms I hear. At the end of the final transmission the base station gives its callsign and the mobile "KA2696". Public service (i.e., police, fire, rescue) base stations are supposed to id every hour with their callsign. Few do. I don't think much will change under STARS. I've noticed STARS DGIF mobiles do not id their mobile callsign as they did in analog comms.
 

mrova

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Chesterfield, VA
I was thinking that

before Chesterfield PD went digital, I was able to listen to them on my old sportcat 180. I don't think I'd ever heard them say any callsign. It sounds like it's the proper thing to do, just didn't seem so many do it. Thanks for the info folks.
sv
 

hfd376

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Henrico Co
In the old timey days, it was probably an SOP that at the end of dispatch/car conversation, each was suposed to give its call sign to sign off. In Richmond, base call sign was KIC-365, the mobiles were KA-5367. You'll both comm officers and troopers say the call signs to sign off a conversation.

Doug
 

Samuel

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Prince William, Virginia
I know I have heard troopers say the mobile callsign when they finish a conversation on TAC.

Also I can't speak for the rest of the state but up here in NoVa before trunking most agencies were good about doing it every 30 min or at the end of long transmissions but now that the callsign is encoded in the trunked data its not voiced.

I know our FCC licenses are post at the enterance to our PSCC



Prince William Clear.....1714....KLX-941
 
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