Camden new jersey to throw in badges and fire helmets

[KB1UAM]

Camden police and fire departments to turn in badges and helmets due to massive budget cuts! who will protect and serve now?!!!!

Camden police and firefighters turn in their gear | CapeCodOnline.com

 

[6520tkp]

Invalid Thread

What does this have to with Radio Reference.

Contact you local congressman (woman) and see what they have to say.

Sorry I like to help but....

 

[randyf]

amazing this could happen this day and age imagine the insurance premiums will be like for the business and home owners creating further hardships for the area

 

[b7spectra]

Who loses with governments shutting down public service in order to make budgets? Everyone except politicians.

Who WINS with government shutting down public service in order to make budgets? Politicians!

What else is new?

 

[northzone]

Yea, the greedy jerks would not agree to any concessions to keep their fellow officers/firefighters employed. Same thing happened in Oakland, CA. All the talk about "these our my brothers" and such is meaningless to these selfish fools. Cut their pay in half for starters.

 

[6520tkp]

AMEN brother

 

[joetnymedic]

I believe the OP was just pointing out the dire situation in Camden. As a retired medic and former vol. firefighter, I also think this is a very risky move by the city, actually any city, to make. You just do not cut public safety. So fellow monitors is the Camden area, keep your scanners tuned in and just watch what happens. Now the post is related to scanning. To the brothers who lost their jobs, God bless and hopefully this is short lived and nobody loses their life over it.

Joe

 

[Spankymedic7]

I believe the OP was just pointing out the dire situation in Camden. As a retired medic and former vol. firefighter, I also think this is a very risky move by the city, actually any city, to make. You just do not cut public safety. So fellow monitors is the Camden area, keep your scanners tuned in and just watch what happens. Now the post is related to scanning. To the brothers who lost their jobs, God bless and hopefully this is short lived and nobody loses their life over it.

Joe

Amen brother.

In my 20 years in EMS, I've never...NEVER heard of budget cuts in the area of public safety. I think that this is simply disgusting. Who's going to suffer? The citizens. For what? Money.

Like I said, simply disgusting.

 

[rdale]

Who's going to suffer? The citizens. For what? Money.

The firefighters and police officers had the option of taking a pay cut for all and saving their jobs, and decided against it. The citizens had the option of raising taxes to pay for it, and decided against it. Not sure who you are blaming in this case?

 

[GrumpyGuard]

I have worked in Law Enforcement for the past 25 years, during this time I have been furloughed, had my wages cut more than once. Those of us in public safety need to make sacrifices just as all civil service workers. What makes us any better than the public works employee, or any other staffer? The city where I live has had to close one fire station even after concessions were made by the Fire Fighters because of declining revenue. These are tough times and every oneneeds to do their part in reducing the cost of Government.

 

[RolnCode3]

Yea, the greedy jerks would not agree to any concessions to keep their fellow officers/firefighters employed. Same thing happened in Oakland, CA. All the talk about "these our my brothers" and such is meaningless to these selfish fools. Cut their pay in half for starters.

Oakland starting pay:
7147.49- the 8-10% cut already in place=
6575.70/2=

3287.8454 per month

Pretty tempting.

 

[FreeOperator]

Not that I don't sympathize here, but the situation in Camden has been pretty bleek for a long time. My research indicates that the police department has had intervention by the NJSP since 2005. Anyone in law enforcement can tell you, if your department is operating during intervention, it doesn't mean you won the grand prize at the carnival.

Camden has been listed as the most dangerous city four straight years now, with a population just under 80,000. I recognize that being part of the Philly Metro area doesn't help, but when your homicide rate per citizen is higher than Baltimore, DC and New Orleans, cities that are all near or have been near a million people, you're doing something wrong.

Do I believe this was the right move by the government in Camden? No, but I also have to say that the current Camden council has inherited quite a mess from previous administrations, which likely included poor housekeeping by the former chief.

Best of intentions and all, no matter who you are, if you inherit a mess, you never know what's all in it until you're done cleaning it up.

And frankly speaking, the problems in Camden are very much all the way around, not just with public safety or their politicians. You have a school system that is currently held in intervention by the State, and 40% of the citizens are living below the poverty line.

I don't know what the starting pay, or even veteran offiver pay is there, but with that level poverty, did the officers actually believe that their salaries could be maintained for long?

Poverty affects business, which affects money, which effects services. I can't say it any plainer.

I sure wish the firefighters and officers the best, I really really do, but goodness sake, the writing was on this wall for a long time.

 

[soberbyker]

Yea, the greedy jerks would not agree to any concessions to keep their fellow officers/firefighters employed. Same thing happened in Oakland, CA. All the talk about "these our my brothers" and such is meaningless to these selfish fools. Cut their pay in half for starters.

Looks like the "greedy jerks" AND the laid off officers turned down the offer.

A judge ruled that he won't force Camden to bring back 167 police officers who were laid off earlier in the week.

an evening vote, the city chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police rejected a deal that would have reinstated officers in exchange for giving them unpaid furlough days.

F.O.P. Local 1 President John Williamson said the vote was 300-1 against the measure.

Camden police union rejects concession deal that could bring back 100 laid-off officers | NJ.com

 

[K2KOH]

The firefighters and police officers had the option of taking a pay cut for all and saving their jobs, and decided against it. The citizens had the option of raising taxes to pay for it, and decided against it. Not sure who you are blaming in this case?

Why take a pay cut? How about cutting the entitlement programs? Camden is a dump, and all the taxpayers left that city a long time ago. All you have left are welfare leeches. So, I don't see blaming the police or firefighter unions here.

 

[FreeOperator]

Why take a pay cut? How about cutting the entitlement programs? Camden is a dump, and all the taxpayers left that city a long time ago. All you have left are welfare leeches. So, I don't see blaming the police or firefighter unions here.

Right, you just made the counter-point.

If all that is left is people living below the poverty line, which as I stated in my post is approximately 40% according to the Census Bureau, why would this public safety workers believe that their salaries could be maintained at those levels?

Anyone with a calculator could figure that one out.

Government salaries can't just be a competitive number, they have to be based on what that tax base can afford. If the tax base can no longer afford it, which in this case is what is happening, government services will either need to be reduced, or the money going into them will need to be reduced. Again, I reference your calculator.

The major cost in any business, government agency, or corporation is human labor. And while I'm all for us getting rich and maintaining our very comfortable lifestyle in the US, there comes a point in any situation where real action has to be taken, and today is that day for Camden, New Jersey.

It's clear with the history of that city that it has been neglected for the last ten years at least, and that if something isn't severly changed now, there won't be any chance to maintain that city.

Do I think all government employees there should be taking cuts? Yes.

Do I think it has to start somewhere? Yes.

Can you imagine the influence the police and fire fighters accepting pay cuts would have had on the rest of the service staff?

And while I agree it shouldn't be taken advantage of, pay cuts still need to happen with this one city.

Cuts like these are not the answer every time, but for Camden it is a long time coming.

 

[b7spectra]

The firefighters and police officers had the option of taking a pay cut for all and saving their jobs, and decided against it. The citizens had the option of raising taxes to pay for it, and decided against it. Not sure who you are blaming in this case?

It was their Union that said NO. And now their Union is pretty much turning their backs on them.

 

[rdale]

I thought the union was made up of members? Or are you saying the leaders of the union overruled their members?

 

[Squad10]

Newark Police Director Garry McCarthy, were to have Camden partner with federal agencies like the Drug Enforcement Agency
McCarthy recommended that Camden pair some police units with their federal equivalents, like the narcotics team with the DEA or the warrants unit with the U.S. Marshals Service. The state of New Jersey already granted Camden $69 million in special aid last year, but it declined to provide enough to avoid layoffs.

Seems to me, Camden may be serviced by a federal police force. They could call it the SS, for Shared Service or maybe Shuttered Service.

 

[VE3RADIO]

Not that I don't sympathize here, but the situation in Camden has been pretty bleek for a long time. My research indicates that the police department has had intervention by the NJSP since 2005. Anyone in law enforcement can tell you, if your department is operating during intervention, it doesn't mean you won the grand prize at the carnival.

Camden has been listed as the most dangerous city four straight years now, with a population just under 80,000. I recognize that being part of the Philly Metro area doesn't help, but when your homicide rate per citizen is higher than Baltimore, DC and New Orleans, cities that are all near or have been near a million people, you're doing something wrong.

Do I believe this was the right move by the government in Camden? No, but I also have to say that the current Camden council has inherited quite a mess from previous administrations, which likely included poor housekeeping by the former chief.

Best of intentions and all, no matter who you are, if you inherit a mess, you never know what's all in it until you're done cleaning it up.

And frankly speaking, the problems in Camden are very much all the way around, not just with public safety or their politicians. You have a school system that is currently held in intervention by the State, and 40% of the citizens are living below the poverty line.

I don't know what the starting pay, or even veteran offiver pay is there, but with that level poverty, did the officers actually believe that their salaries could be maintained for long?

Poverty affects business, which affects money, which effects services. I can't say it any plainer.

I sure wish the firefighters and officers the best, I really really do, but goodness sake, the writing was on this wall for a long time.

Camden is not just in the Philadelphia metro area it is directly across the river, connected by bridge, subway and bus. I would say it is safe to say that Camden is nothing more than a Philly slum. You simply cannot compare Camden to Baltimore or DC or any other self functioning central city of a million plus metro area... Blatimore and DC are the centre of their respective areas as opposed to just a part of one. You would be better to compare Camden to Newark, both have direct subway access to a much larger city in the case of Newark the PATH takes you right in to New York as PATCO does in Philly. Newark has long been known to house the poor of New York.

 

[FreeOperator]

The only comparison I made involved the type of crime that occurs. And yes, I can make that comparison.

Pointing out the first part of that post, the NJSP has had to intervene because of substandard training and policing. To say that officers in Camden didn't have some part in this situation is silly.

And an even better point was made by Spectra. The Union said no. Some people may not be aware, but some unions that police officers are part of are not always police exclusive.

I've known of some smaller agencies out here that were represented by the Teamsters, which meant they had to share representation with other types of labor.

What this sounds like more and more, is the CPD saw this coming, like everyone else on the planet that read about the problems of Camden, and they chose to stick their heads in the sand, or at least ensured it by not taking control of the situation.

Since this is obviously not the end this story, I would highly suggest to the Camden public safety community that the officers form a guild, they're clearly big enough for that. And that the fire fighters join a bigger fire-fighter union within their region.

Then they can be sure that their voice is heard alone, and that no one is potentially speaking for them without listening first.

Further, I would highly suggest that the officers of Camden figure out what it's going to take to effectively deal with crime, because it sounds more and more like they are apathetic to their situation, the more I read, and the more I listen to people from the region.

And for my money, I wouldn't want apathy in my city services.