Can anyone help me with Unitrunker setup/install?

Status
Not open for further replies.

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,619
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
I used to think I wasn't the dumbest bear in the woods. Now I am beginning to think otherwise. I know how to successfully use Trunktracker 3.8.3 and am familiar with its setups and uniques. I downloaded Unitrunker version 0.1.0.57 and installed it. I selected a known 400 mhz. local Army facility trs to test Unitrunker. I am using a R7000 with the discriminator modification. I can use a level 2 data slicer input to the 9 pin RS232 serial connection on the laptop with WinXP. I also have a audio cable input connection using the discriminator output port on the R7000 to the mike in on the laptop. I ran Slicer in MS DOS and received an excellent signal input display for COM1. Using the RS232 interface I ran TT 3.8.3 with the R7000 set on the trs CC..hi quality signal and it worked great decoding the target 400 mhz. trs. But using Unitrunker I received the "no signal" display regardless of the setup option selections for receiver or listening settings selected using either the level 2 data slicer input or input audio cable interfaces. I have searched RR to include RR Wiki and read snippets on various RR forums of basically non-applicable information regarding detailed instructions for setup and installation. RR Wiki is extremely lacking in detail setup help information. I press "F1" Help in Unitrunker and only "Help" displays...that's all. Said another way.

Next I download and install Unitrunker the latest greatest version after uninstalling 0.1.0.57. I could not get it to work with a Level 2 data splitter RS232 interface. But I did have limited success with the baseband audio interface. However, I cannot locate detailed setup/installation instructions and explanations of the various data fields although most are obvious for this Unitrunker version either. Stumbling forward and backward I accessed another screen asking me for a frequency. I assumed that was a request for the target trs control channel frequency which I entered (edited) at the LCN that displayed. What is an LCN in Unitrunker? Is it a logical control number? I am familiar with LCNS for EDACS and LTR systems but what does it mean in Unitrunker and where is that field explanation documented? Unitrunker correctly ided the trs system id and that it was a 5 channel system. I assumed (falsely) that the LCNS displayed keyed to a cross reference chart somewhere that listed the other 4 frequencies? Wrong! I cannot figure out how to understand Unitrunker LCNS. I thought possibly they keyed to the NTIA Red Book channelization scheme for govt. 400 mhz. frequencies but sight checking the list showed different frequencies/channels than what were the actual correct frequencies in the trs. Next I entered in ascending the other 4 other actual correct trs frequencies to whatever LCNS displayed and Unitrunker did correctly track the talkgroups to them. But the Unitrunker LCNS are meaningless to me. Additionally in another screen I correctly setup the trs as a 406.0000 mhz. base with a 12.5 khz. spacing. But I do not understand what values to enter, if any, from low to high in that screen. The software user should not be put in a position to guess as to what to enter in the undocumented various fields. Again it is lack of detailed documentation. Sorry, I flunked mind reading.

So I sort of got Unitrunker the latest greatest version to work but only by reading the limited info provided with the software and reading various RR forum posts and the rest by guesswork. I do things in this version of Unitrunker but I don't understand some of what I do and I am not comfortable that all is correct with what I have done.

Can any Unitrunker guru (that's anybody who knows something I don't) take pity and time to assist me so I can create my own documentation for future reference because I sure haven't located it on the internet and/or user forum groups so far. If there is an internet link that discusses and explains in detail the setup instructions and data fields in the latest greatest version of Unitrunker I would appreciate having it. Hint. Please do not refer me to RR Wiki!

I would like to install both versions of Unitrunker as both would be valuable trs diagnostic aids to me. I like the display in 0.1.0.57 better than the latest version of Unitrunker unless it's supposed to look similar to 57 and I am failing to do something to activate that display....very frustrating.

My immediate frustrations are Unitrunker LCNS! What is the Unitrunker definition of LCN and how do they relate to specific frequencies detected in a trs scan?

If somebody could private email with a phone number I could call for assistance that too would be great as I have spent two days now trying to get Unitrunker to work and understand the data fields and relationships without much success.

Thanks in advance.

John W4UVV
 

fmon

Silent Key Jan. 14, 2012
Joined
May 11, 2002
Messages
7,741
Location
Eclipse, Virginia
Hi John,

In the UniTrunker folder look for and click on Uniform.htm.

Are you working the Ft Lee system?

BTW, your nearby neighbor AAron (Stick0413) uses UniTrunker on systems in your area.
 

Stick0413

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,118
Location
Hopewell, VA
Yeah he is talking about the Fort Lee system. Really to be honest I have never had much luck with the Fort Lee system in UniTrunker. If I have a little time today I will try to run UniTrunker on Fort Lee and see what I get (I am using my PSR-500 however). I will have to use the old version however because I am on a Vista computer and the new UniTrunker doesn't get along with Vista at all (hopefully that fix is around the corner). The LCN is for use with the EDACS and everything I believe. If I get a chance to play around with it today I will let you know what I get.
 

Stick0413

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,118
Location
Hopewell, VA
Yeah I am not getting Fort Lee to work.... It is just coming up with channel numbers and no Freqs or anything.... Also getting what look to be bogus talkgroups popping up (30992 and its just dancing around on the "channel numbers" its showing.) I really have never understood this so after the first couple of times trying it on there I gave up on it and sorta forgot about what it did. Is this basically what you got on yours John? If so we might need to contact Rick (UniTrunker) and see if he knows what is going on with it.
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,619
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
success...maybe

Yeah I am not getting Fort Lee to work.... It is just coming up with channel numbers and no Freqs or anything.... Also getting what look to be bogus talkgroups popping up (30992 and its just dancing around on the "channel numbers" its showing.) I really have never understood this so after the first couple of times trying it on there I gave up on it and sorta forgot about what it did. Is this basically what you got on yours John? If so we might need to contact Rick (UniTrunker) and see if he knows what is going on with it.
I missed this info file on .57 because it was in the Program Files section. After more trial and error attempts to relate to the outdated documention for version .57? I still received the "no signal" display when in fact the scope program showed I had lots of CC signal on 409.3000 mhz....maybe a tad bit too much. Then I changed the type of signal from "inverted", which it is with the level 2 datasplitter. to "normal". Then success...I think so far. The trs sys id displayed correctly. So far three talkgroups have tracked correctly, 33920 Security Dispatch, 33936 Security Tac 2 and 33776 Fire/EMS Dispatch . The trs signal quality is in the upper 90s which is great except I noticed on the scope display the CC signal really maxed at the edges. I decided to nsert a junk box variable potentiometer in the baseband audio input connection interface. After adjusting it to its lowest position my trs CC signal quality went to 99-100%. It didn't adversely affect anything and may have helped a little.

Because of my ignorance of unitrunker channel number definitions and some data trs relationships, I still have confusion that hopefully I can overcome by digging deeper into its' operation and maybe find some helpful specific detail documentation.

In the (V)iew (S)ites option it is easier to list the displays than try to explain what the value of each means. Here are the current trs display values:
(Top Red Line "Channel" under "Motorola System")= #636, #644, #650 and #690. I have no idea what those "channels" mean and how they relate.
Under [Sites]:
The trs system id again ids correctly as "791A" with" 0-3" listed under "Site". On the same line under "Control"
"644, 438, 502, and "604" display. In the adjacent right "channels" column "0,1,1,4" keyed to the aformentioned 4 control values display. Again I have no idea what the "644-604" control values mean. Here we go again with Unitrunker LCNs.

After reading the documentation and trying I still am unable to enter a bandplan for this trs. No bandplan, no trs frequency channelization scheme. Maybe there is an environment file entry in MS DOS to setup like in Trunktracker. I guess in time I will figure it out. But I've made a quantum leap of success compared to previous frustrations. Tnx for the helpful comments.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
I changed the type of signal from "inverted", which it is with the level 2 datasplitter. to "normal".
It is set to "Auto" by default. You only need to select normal vs. inverted if you are running old, weak hardware.

I decided to nsert a junk box variable potentiometer in the baseband audio input connection interface. After adjusting it to its lowest position my trs CC signal quality went to 99-100%. It didn't adversely affect anything and may have helped a little.
Excellent.

The trs system id again ids correctly as "791A" with" 0-3" listed under "Site". On the same line under "Control" "644, 438, 502, and "604" display. In the adjacent right "channels" column "0,1,1,4" keyed to the aformentioned 4 control values display. Again I have no idea what the "644-604" control values mean. Here we go again with Unitrunker LCNs.
This takes some explanation. You're monitoring Site 3 of system 791A. Sites 1 and 2 are neighbor sites. The number in the "Control" column is the active control channel number (LCN) for each site. The "Channels" columns tells you how many channels have (so far) been discovered for each site. Unless you can actually tune in to sites 1 or 2 - you'll only see past or present control channels as announced over site 3's control channel.

I still am unable to enter a bandplan for this trs. No bandplan, no trs frequency channelization scheme.
From the main menu ... nsert -> and ... type in the low and high channel numbers, the base frequency and channel spacing. Type [Alt] to save.

Someone in this area should contact the Virginia DB admin to clean up some of the data for this system. It appears in the RR DB twice - once for Hopewell as a stand-alone system and again as the multisite Smart Zone system it really is. Hopewell appears as site 4 in the latter DB entry - which is probably correct.

If you don't want to type in the band plan - downloading system data will usually net you the bandplan too.
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,619
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
thanks but more questions

It is set to "Auto" by default. You only need to select normal vs. inverted if you are running old, weak hardware.

Excellent.


This takes some explanation. You're monitoring Site 3 of system 791A. Sites 1 and 2 are neighbor sites. The number in the "Control" column is the active control channel number (LCN) for each site. The "Channels" columns tells you how many channels have (so far) been discovered for each site. Unless you can actually tune in to sites 1 or 2 - you'll only see past or present control channels as announced over site 3's control channel.

From the main menu ... nsert -> and ... type in the low and high channel numbers, the base frequency and channel spacing. Type [Alt] to save.

Someone in this area should contact the Virginia DB admin to clean up some of the data for this system. It appears in the RR DB twice - once for Hopewell as a stand-alone system and again as the multisite Smart Zone system it really is. Hopewell appears as site 4 in the latter DB entry - which is probably correct.

If you don't want to type in the band plan - downloading system data will usually net you the bandplan too.


Tnx for the reply. Ok on your comments..understand. As previously mentioned I have used TT 3.8.3 for a number of years and have that experience with which to relate trying to use both the Unitrunker old and new versions. I have abandoned trying to use a level 2 data splitter as input to Unitrunker and use unfiltered audio input only. I finally was able to create a bandplan for the Ft. Lee, Va., trs but again I do not understand Unitrunker's definition and use of LCNs. For example, Ft. Lee has 4 trs frequencies. They are: 409.2000, 409.3000(CC), 409.3750 and 409.8750 mhz. Unitrunker displays 4 channels(LCNs?). They are: 636(white),644(red-CC?), 650(white) and 690(gold). Does "636" equate to 409.2000 mhz. and if so how? How can I cross relate a Unitrunker LCN channel to a specific trs frequency? So far I have been unsuccessful in locating any documentation on the internet that discusses the subject of Unitrunker's LCNs in any detail. Maybe I'm expecting Unitrunker to do something it cannot do that TT 3.8.3 can do. That is id all frequencies used in a Motorola 400 mhz. target trs. I assumed by entering the trs CC frequency newer version Unitrunker would process and display the total number of actual frequencies used. Maybe it does calling them LCNs. I notice that the latest Unitrunker version wants the user to enter a trs' frequencies. Unitrunker appears to correctly track talkgroups with the appropriate channels(LCNs?). What is the process of relating a LCN channel to an actual frequency? LCNs as standalones are meaningless to me. Any helpful explanatory comments appreciated. Tnx.

Regarding the Hopewell trs, technically you are correct but a reader sight checking the list of trunked systems probably is not going to know that Hopewell, Ft. Lee, and Naval Base Norfolk comprise "Eastern Virginia Regional Communication System" and look there for Hopewell info. The separate listing may have been added as an aid in locating Hopewell radio information.
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,619
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
I guess nobody can answer the questions

Tnx for the reply. Ok on your comments..understand. As previously mentioned I have used TT 3.8.3 for a number of years and have that experience with which to relate trying to use both the Unitrunker old and new versions. I have abandoned trying to use a level 2 data splitter as input to Unitrunker and use unfiltered audio input only. I finally was able to create a bandplan for the Ft. Lee, Va., trs but again I do not understand Unitrunker's definition and use of LCNs. For example, Ft. Lee has 4 trs frequencies. They are: 409.2000, 409.3000(CC), 409.3750 and 409.8750 mhz. Unitrunker displays 4 channels(LCNs?). They are: 636(white),644(red-CC?), 650(white) and 690(gold). Does "636" equate to 409.2000 mhz. and if so how? How can I cross relate a Unitrunker LCN channel to a specific trs frequency? So far I have been unsuccessful in locating any documentation on the internet that discusses the subject of Unitrunker's LCNs in any detail. Maybe I'm expecting Unitrunker to do something it cannot do that TT 3.8.3 can do. That is id all frequencies used in a Motorola 400 mhz. target trs. I assumed by entering the trs CC frequency newer version Unitrunker would process and display the total number of actual frequencies used. Maybe it does calling them LCNs. I notice that the latest Unitrunker version wants the user to enter a trs' frequencies. Unitrunker appears to correctly track talkgroups with the appropriate channels(LCNs?). What is the process of relating a LCN channel to an actual frequency? LCNs as standalones are meaningless to me. Any helpful explanatory comments appreciated. Tnx.

Regarding the Hopewell trs, technically you are correct but a reader sight checking the list of trunked systems probably is not going to know that Hopewell, Ft. Lee, and Naval Base Norfolk comprise "Eastern Virginia Regional Communication System" and look there for Hopewell info. The separate listing may have been added as an aid in locating Hopewell radio information.
Apparantly nobody can answer the questions as how a Unitrunker (latest greatest version) LCN equates to a trs frequency after the Control Channel and band plan information are entered. Do the other trs frequencies have to be entered to a corresponding LCN? If so which one? Talkgroups track correctly with LCNS(channels) in the trs but they are meaningless because there is no matching trs frequency for a Unitrunker generated LCN. How about taking time to update the Unitrunker documentation so a user can understand what a Unitrunker LCN is and how it relates to a unique trs frequency instead of having the user guess. If this is subject matter is documented and available on the internet, please provide the link as presently no Google search or forum post I have read discusses the above subjects or anything regarding Unitrunker LCNS. Documentation is not a high priority with most programers. They prefer to program. As is Unitrunker has limited value as a diagnostic aid.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Apparantly nobody can answer the questions as how a Unitrunker (latest greatest version) LCN equates to a trs frequency after the Control Channel and band plan information are entered.
Here is the formula as used by any scanner or decoding software that supports a user defined band plan.

Channel Frequency = Base Frequency + (LCN - Offset) * Spacing.

The "Offset" is the "LCN Lo" channel number. The purpose of the "LCN Hi" number is to tell the program over which range of LCNs the specific base / offset / spacing values apply.

For Motorola UHF and VHF systems - LCN values range from 380 to 759 for repeater output frequencies. Channel numbers below 380 designate repeater input frequencies (and so are of little or no use for monitoring).

You can use a spreadsheet program like Excel to test different Base / Offset / Spacing combinations to see which ones "fit" a particular system.

For simple systems that use a single table entry - knowing the LCN and frequency of two channels is enough to deduce a map for the system.
 

W4UVV

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
1,619
Location
Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
Thank you very much

Here is the formula as used by any scanner or decoding software that supports a user defined band plan.

Channel Frequency = Base Frequency + (LCN - Offset) * Spacing.

The "Offset" is the "LCN Lo" channel number. The purpose of the "LCN Hi" number is to tell the program over which range of LCNs the specific base / offset / spacing values apply.

For Motorola UHF and VHF systems - LCN values range from 380 to 759 for repeater output frequencies. Channel numbers below 380 designate repeater input frequencies (and so are of little or no use for monitoring).

You can use a spreadsheet program like Excel to test different Base / Offset / Spacing combinations to see which ones "fit" a particular system.

For simple systems that use a single table entry - knowing the LCN and frequency of two channels is enough to deduce a map for the system.
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I now easily can relate to the relationship information in your post. It would be most helpful if the Unitrunker documentation included this explanatory information. I knew "380" was Motorola's lowest offset number for 400 mhz. trs and used in determining the appropriate trs frequency(ies). I suspected it had an offset value to a trs frequency formula relationship but not knowing the remaining formula elements made it impossible for me to totally relate. Thanks again. I appreciate it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top