Yes, in general. More specifically some things are more affected than others and it depends on where you are. UHF is not so popular with the PS folks in the area north of Lake Pontchartrain in SE Louisiana. There are lots (I mean lots) of Southern Pine up there, ever notice how long those pine needles are? :lol:kc8qln said:In even more general terms, does foliage reduce the ability to receive signals?
That's the rumor, but I doubt it matters.kb2vxa said:. . . .
"There are lots (I mean lots) of Southern Pine up there, ever notice how long those pine needles are?"
Lou, if you took the time to measure them you'd probably find them to be resonant on UHF. That may be a tongue in cheek remark but I'm probably right.
Foliage does affect propagation. There are even standard values to use to adjust coverage studies between seasons.fineshot1 said:I also doubt very much if foliage matters much at most of the frequencies we monitor via our scanners. I dont remember where I read it but I once read a doc on " RF Foliage Absorbtion " and it stated that this is barely measurable until you reach about 3 or 4Ghz. I use the 1.2ghz band alot and have never noticed any difference between winter & summer time propagation. The only thing I ever noticed that effected propagation at 1.2ghz was thick fog or mist in the air and even then there had to be lots of it......
How much depends on how much foliage and how much margin you have.fineshot1 said:N_Jay - The question is " how much " , not does foliage effect propagation. Yes - it does effect propagation, but at the frequencies and signal levels most of us use whether with an indoor or outdoor antenna it is doubtfull that anyone in that situation is going to be able to measure the difference. Now if you want to do a scientific analysis using all kinds of nice measuement gear yes you will be able to measure the effect but its going to be a small amount.
mancow - We are generally not talking about week signal here. Most of the general scanner users are listening to local or semi-local signals. Some scanner users trying to listen to signals far off use yagis or preamps or combos of the two.
Please reread the above question - I never challenged the concept thatkc8qln said:In even more general terms, does foliage reduce the ability to receive
Thank you N_Jay for pointing that out. Yes there are standard values used toN_Jay said:There are even standard values to use to adjust coverage studies between seasons.
I disagree about it being meaningless when you consider the original question.N_Jay said:How much depends on how much foliage and how much margin you have.
Saying it is a little or a lot is meaningless.
It is enough to have to be considered when developing coverage acceptance tests for systems.
I also live in a pine rich area( NJ Pine Barrens ) and much of the propagationloumaag said:Since VHF worked as did 800 MHz, the blame was laid on pine needles.
With needles running from 5 to 9 inches, and when on the tree full of
pine sap, I think one might consider that they may indeed make pretty
good RF attractors.
So I guess a sap filled 6 1/8 inch pine needle would make at least a
passable absorber, now lets see, multiply that by ... oh a couple of
billion or so and you see UHF doesn't cut it. Now I don't know about
where you live fineshot, but in that area, they don't use UHF because
Sorry for the delay in addressing your reply, I either didn't get a notification or missed it, but saw it based on the most recent post.fineshot1 said:I also live in a pine rich area( NJ Pine Barrens ) and much of the propagation around here depends on how well the system gets engineered. Our system is
mostly UHF and works well. In fact on some of the scanner threads its been
refered to as " a flame thrower " due to the fact that lots of listeners have been
able to copy the trunk sys & paging via there scanners from a few counties away.
You did not mention any of the engineering aspects of the systems in your area
so I cannot comment on them.
To answer the direct question though, "Do you hear further in winter?" I would say NO. You may have less losses due to trees, but the VHF and UHF band conditions are flatter with respect to tropo enhancement.kc8qln said:Generally speaking, when all the leaves fall, do you hear father?
In even more general terms, does foliage reduce the ability to receive signals?