Can you remotely change channels with FleetSync on TK-8180

[766keith]

I am not very experienced with radios but I have been tasked with upgrading our Agency to a DMR digital system. We operate on a shared frequency with multiple agencies that are not currently upgrading their systems. Our agency will go fully digital but we will cross patch at a repeater site from a digital radio to a Kenwood TK-8180 to remain on the same UHF analog frequency as the other agencies. What I am trying to establish is a system for changing the channel on that 8180 remotely if we need to switch over to another channel. Is it possible with Kenwood FleetSync or some other system such as DTMF to change the channel on that 8180 at the repeater site from our mobile or portable radios? Thanks!

 

[mmckenna]

Channels can be changed using the binary input on the rear 25 pin d-sub connector. You would need to use a tone remote device to do that. It's not a trivial setup, so unless you have done this sort of stuff before, you'd want to hire a professional.

 

[ramal121]

As mentioned, there are inputs on the rear connector that will change channels. There are also logic outputs that can be turned on and off using Fleetsync. I was thinking that you could loop the logic outputs back to the channel select inputs and control it with Fleetsync, but the more I ponder this it is turning into a complicated user experience to control.

My suggestion is instead of an 8180, get a repeater like a TKR850 or NXR810 and set that up as an analog base (requires an antenna T/R relay).
They have 6 front panel buttons. Program each button as channel select 1 to 6. Then use the the remote control feature of those models to remotely "press" one of those buttons using DTMF. Pretty simple to do. And will interface to the DMR radio just as easy as a 8180.

 

[766keith]

Channels can be changed using the binary input on the rear 25 pin d-sub connector. You would need to use a tone remote device to do that. It's not a trivial setup, so unless you have done this sort of stuff before, you'd want to hire a professional.

As mentioned, there are inputs on the rear connector that will change channels. There are also logic outputs that can be turned on and off using Fleetsync. I was thinking that you could loop the logic outputs back to the channel select inputs and control it with Fleetsync, but the more I ponder this it is turning into a complicated user experience to control.

My suggestion is instead of an 8180, get a repeater like a TKR850 or NXR810 and set that up as an analog base (requires an antenna T/R relay).
They have 6 front panel buttons. Program each button as channel select 1 to 6. Then use the the remote control feature of those models to remotely "press" one of those buttons using DTMF. Pretty simple to do. And will interface to the DMR radio just as easy as a 8180.

Thank you both. @ramal121 I think if its possible, that first option would be the better for our situation if it is at all possible. It is a small agency with a tight budget and we already have the 8180. If we went with the second option not only would we have to buy the radio, we would also have to license a repeater pair since we are on a commercial band. The frequency coordination alone is over $1000 before we could even apply for the license so I don't believe that option would be available. Can you give me any guidance on Fleetsync? I have tried to research it and how to use it but there is no information on the internet. Kenwood doesn't discuss it in manuals, service manuals, on the web.. I cannot find any information on what it does or how to use it.

 

[766keith]

As mentioned, there are inputs on the rear connector that will change channels. There are also logic outputs that can be turned on and off using Fleetsync. I was thinking that you could loop the logic outputs back to the channel select inputs and control it with Fleetsync, but the more I ponder this it is turning into a complicated user experience to control.

My suggestion is instead of an 8180, get a repeater like a TKR850 or NXR810 and set that up as an analog base (requires an antenna T/R relay).
They have 6 front panel buttons. Program each button as channel select 1 to 6. Then use the the remote control feature of those models to remotely "press" one of those buttons using DTMF. Pretty simple to do. And will interface to the DMR radio just as easy as a 8180.

Also, I cannot find anything on the pin configuration for the 25 pin d-sub. Either of you have a schematic on that?

 

[a417]

Also, I cannot find anything on the pin configuration for the 25 pin d-sub. Either of you have a schematic on that?

page 47 in the service manual - readily available from repeater-builder.com

 

[ramal121]

First off you'd not be putting up a new repeater. It would be set up as a base radio. No need to coordinate a new pair. I'd argue it would be a mobile (MO) off your existing license or at most add a fixed base (FB) to the license. Whether it is a 8180 or a TKR850 would be the same thing.

Now to the 8180. You can control 1 of 3 outputs on the 25 pin accessory connector with Fleetsync. This would give you access to 4 channels using the channel select inputs. Channel 1 which is the default with all inputs off and channels 2 through 4 by turning on one of the three inputs. Theoretically you can go up to 8 channels using the binary coded inputs but now the complexity has increased by a thousand fold and is not for the casual user. The gotcha here for what I propose to change channels would be to first issue a reset command to clear the existing channel and then send a different command to go to a different channel. Failure to reset would either be going to a undefined channel or not changing the channel at all. I would have to test to be sure.

Does this sound like something that can be done by procedure and by someone who doesn't have much of a clue? Would 4 channels be enough?

I see a417 stepped up and posted the DB-25 pinouts. Saves me a few keystrokes. You can read more about Fleetsync in the Function manual.

TK-2180_7180_FUNC_v200.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Be forewarned, I have never attempted this before and I'm totally shooting from the hip. No guarantees. Interesting concept though!

 

[766keith]

First off you'd not be putting up a new repeater. It would be set up as a base radio. No need to coordinate a new pair. I'd argue it would be a mobile (MO) off your existing license or at most add a fixed base (FB) to the license. Whether it is a 8180 or a TKR850 would be the same thing.

Now to the 8180. You can control 1 of 3 outputs on the 25 pin accessory connector with Fleetsync. This would give you access to 4 channels using the channel select inputs. Channel 1 which is the default with all inputs off and channels 2 through 4 by turning on one of the three inputs. Theoretically you can go up to 8 channels using the binary coded inputs but now the complexity has increased by a thousand fold and is not for the casual user. The gotcha here for what I propose to change channels would be to first issue a reset command to clear the existing channel and then send a different command to go to a different channel. Failure to reset would either be going to a undefined channel or not changing the channel at all. I would have to test to be sure.

Does this sound like something that can be done by procedure and by someone who doesn't have much of a clue? Would 4 channels be enough?

I see a417 stepped up and posted the DB-25 pinouts. Saves me a few keystrokes. You can read more about this in the Function manual.

TK-2180_7180_FUNC_v200.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Be forewarned, I have never attempted this before and I'm totally shooting from the hip. No guarantees. Interesting concept though!

I appreciate this greatly. I do not plan on doing any of this myself. If we wind up doing it, it will definitely be something I contract the local radio service for.

 

[ramal121]

Fair enough. Yea this would definitely be an E ticket ride (really dating myself here) and tech assistance is required. If needed I could mock up a test radio for concept. If I can help, and this may get way too involved for the forum, you can e-mail me at sonoma.randy@gmail.com.

 

[a417]

I've got an 8180 that's idle and looking for something to do, I'll help.

 

[mmckenna]

Just make 100% sure you have some sort of kill switch on this thing. Time out timer might be a good option, but I'd still want some way of killing the power to this remotely. Linking radios like that onto someone else's system, and it getting hosed up, it can impact one or both radio systems.

Don't be that guy. Make sure you have:
-Signed Memorandum of Understanding between all agencies, signed by the respective chief's of all agencies involved.
- Signed agreement from said agency saying it is OK for you to operate under their license. This is required by the FCC. (needs to go both ways)
- A plan to kill this system if it causes issues. A back up plan. A back up, back up plan. A back up, back up, back up plan.
- More than one person that knows how to kill this link, and make sure they can access it 24x7x365. Both agencies should have the ability to do this.
- A usage guideline for when/how to use it. (both agencies need to have this)
- Well documented designs that can be referred to when the system breaks down.
- A way to keep unauthorized users off the link. (both sides of it)

Usually you want this hooked up through a dispatch console so a live person can knock down the link, or otherwise intervene if there are issues. Having this at some remote radio site that is not easily accessible is a bad plan.

There are some good arguments to be made for skipping a link like this and just making sure you have the right radios to operate on their system directly. I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on the setup, but if all agencies are on UHF, you are on DMR, and others are on analog, just program in their channel with analog and be done. No reason to overcomplicate this.

Not trying to discourage you, just making sure that you understand there are some responsibilities when setting up an intersystem link like this. This isn't ham radio, and an issue that impacts one or both agencies, especially if it's life safety, can be dangerous.

 

[ramal121]

Just make 100% sure you have some sort of kill switch on this thing. Time out timer might be a good option, but I'd still want some way of killing the power to this remotely. Linking radios like that onto someone else's system, and it getting hosed up, it can impact one or both radio system.

A good argument again for a repeater style base radio set up. Remote knock down is just a programming item.

 

[a417]

A good argument again for a repeater style base radio set up. Remote knock down is just a programming item.

Agreed, once you get a true repeater controller in the mix, this is a trivial task.