Can you use FM in 10 Meter? Does anyone?

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jhooten

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The nice thing about 12 is that when its open, its Open !, but I can't remember a time it was over crowded.... also its not one of those "kilowatt alley" bands like 20-- the average station stands a chance.
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Lauri :)

On contest weekends when 15 is crammed full of u r 59 que ess ell? nonsense 12 meters can be busy with non-contesters trying to find more "normal" contacts.
 
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A good call, JWT- I should have prefaced that extract with "Yank Rules."
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I like your guy's rules much better- and you have found one of the many 'holes' in the FCC regulations that are vague. I think many of our US regulations haven't been looked at in decades- and just stand because no one has made an issue out of them.
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Want a real good example ?- look at our (US) regulations concerning "Pulse" -- We can simply use "Pulse" on certain microwave bands- no specifications on peak pulse powers, means of ID'ing......... very very open ended.
I love to play with radar, and getting clarification on these issues from a FCC Engineer-in-Charge (who also is a family friend) -- drove him to finally say, basically-
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"Go ahead (with your toys) Lauri.... if we need to get you I know where you live"
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Lauri :)
 

w4amp

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Some 10 meter fm freqs:
29.310-29.400 Japan simplex
29.500 and 29.600 North America simplex.

Look forward to working you there.
Jim
 

bill4long

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FM on 10m

FM use on 10 meters is limited to 29.500 to 29.700 and must have at least a general class license!

In the USA, narrow FM is allowed from 28.3 to 29.0 by General class and above, given the modulation index limit. Wide above 29.0. Techs are limited to SSB only, on 28.3 to 28.5. No FM at all on 10m.

There is one interesting exception for Techs talking on 10m FM, and that is if they are on a linked repeater system where the Tech is transmitting on a frequency s/he is allowed to transmit on, say, 2 meters, and being repeated onto a 10m FM repeater. The license class of repeater's control operator is what governs the repeater's transmitter, not the Tech's. (This is always true of repeaters regardless of who is being repeated.) The Tech is only required to be licensed for the frequency that s/he is actually transmitting on from his/her equipment. This is considered third party traffic governed by 97.115 and 97.3(6), therefore the control operator must be present at a control point when this is occurring.
 
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bill4long

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You may be right.. The US regs are pretty vague.. What deviation and modulating frequencies are used when calculating the modulation index? What is the --exact-- bandwidth in Khz "of a quality phone emission "? What is 'quality' and where is it defined.?

FCC regs are not vague at all. FCC Part 2 defines various modes and limitations.

Bandwidth required is roughly (maximum deviation frequency plus the maximum audio frequency) times two. The more precise way of computing this is using the modulation index. ( For a precise definition of modulation index, see Frequency modulation - Wikipedia )

In short, amateur FM transmitters use 20K0F3E ("wide" 5 khz), and some also have 11K2F3E ("narrow" 2.5 khz). Most transmitters limit the transmit audio band pass to 3khz, which puts 11K2F3E modulation index < 1 and the 20K0F3E modulation index > 1.

So, "narrow" FM is allowed in the USA on 10 meters, 28.3 to 29.0 mhz, General class and higher as per 97.305(c).
 

Ishmole

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A few years ago, when 10 meters was open I worked FM simplex to many stations all throughout Europe. Trying to use the 10 meter FM repeaters during an opening is an exercise in futility.
 
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Don't overlook 10 metre AM.....

29.000 is the calling frequency, with "channels" every +/- 10KHz's.

29.000 was? (is ?) a low power frequency, originally in the US- a haunt for convert'd CB Radios-to-Ham.

I think - wild conjecture here- that some countries have a novice type 'phone band that authorizes the high end of 10 for low power stuff.
I have talked to some UK stations on 29.000 - they had different (non G) callsign prefixes that I assumed were novice-like licenses.

If 10 ever returns............. :)



Lauri :sneaky:
 

bill4long

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If 10 ever returns.............

Even though F-layer skip is out of the picture currently, 10m has many E-skip openings in North America (and other parts of the globe.) Mostly around June and July in North America. We had a 10m opening a couple of weeks ago due to a wild temperature inversion. These openings can be 600 to 1000 miles. I just purchsed a new Sirio 847 10m vertical 5/8 wave antenna in anticipation of the E-layer openings of summer. Lots of fun. 10m is far from dead. F-layer will start to come back in five years or so.
 

Ishmole

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On Dec 12, 2018, I had a 600 mile contact on 10 in USB. Just have to keep checking. I usually listen to CB channel 6 and if that band is open, 10 might be
 

edweirdFL

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I'm hoping for a good band opening on 10m soon so I can use my new 10-10 Club number in some QSOs. :cool:
I had an FT8 contact on 10m with a station in Brazil this week, so maybe things are getting better.
 

bill4long

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I'm hoping for a good band opening on 10m soon so I can use my new 10-10 Club number in some QSOs. :cool:
I had an FT8 contact on 10m with a station in Brazil this week, so maybe things are getting better.

E-skip in June and July. Randomly at other times. See my previous post.
10m can do some definitely very light F-layer skip that is sometimes good enough for FT-8.
No doubt about that.
 

zz0468

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I consistently hear 10m beacons from Texas here in California. And I've worked Japan while mobile during sunspot minimums. The band's open more often than we realize, and miss the openings because we're used to thinking it doesn't happen during this part of the solar cycle.
 

KB4MSZ

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There is one interesting exception for Techs talking on 10m FM, and that is if they are on a linked repeater system where the Tech is transmitting on a frequency s/he is allowed to transmit on, say, 2 meters, and being repeated onto a 10m FM repeater.
Would this also be the case with a Novice operator who is accessing a 1.25 meter repeater that is linked to 10 meters?
 

AK9R

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Would this also be the case with a Novice operator who is accessing a 1.25 meter repeater that is linked to 10 meters?
Yes. What matters is the license of the control operator. The person using a repeater is not the control operator of the repeater.
 

jwt873

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Don't overlook 10 metre AM.....

Back in the 80's I bought a shiny new IC-751A. It was my first rig capable of transmitting AM.

I heard a fellow calling CQ on 10 Meter AM. I answered. When we got around to discussing our equipment, I told him what I was using. He politely told me that real AM transmitters use modulation transformers unlike the modern rice-boxes.. The QSO ended shortly thereafter.

There was a snooty bunch of dedicated AM'ers that hung together on 10 and only used vintage tube equipment. They guy calling CQ was looking for 'his own kind'. I don't know if this still holds true 30 years later. Hopefully not.
 

bill4long

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Would this also be the case with a Novice operator who is accessing a 1.25 meter repeater that is linked to 10 meters?

Yep. As long as there is a legitimate control operator able to stop the 10m transmission at will. The way it works, is that operators are only responsible for the transmitters they are directly in control of. Another way of saying this is that operators are only responsible for the transmitters they are the control operator of. Whoever is responsible (control operator) for repeating you on some other transmitter is responsible for that transmitter, not you. His license class matters for that transmitter. Not yours. The only time problem could come into play is if someone is repeating someone to/from a foreign country with whom there is no clear third-party regulatory path for such an operation. But USA and Canada (and a lot of other countries) are just fine with this sort of thing.
 
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bill4long

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Back in the 80's I bought a shiny new IC-751A. It was my first rig capable of transmitting AM.

I heard a fellow calling CQ on 10 Meter AM. I answered. When we got around to discussing our equipment, I told him what I was using. He politely told me that real AM transmitters use modulation transformers unlike the modern rice-boxes.. The QSO ended shortly thereafter.

There was a snooty bunch of dedicated AM'ers that hung together on 10 and only used vintage tube equipment. They guy calling CQ was looking for 'his own kind'. I don't know if this still holds true 30 years later. Hopefully not.

There's still a little of that attitude, but in my experience it has progressed quite far over the last 40 years. I have all modern equipment, SDR, etc, and I yak on AM as much as I can stand. Nobody has ever thumbed their nose at me. I guess it also matters what you bring to the table. Those guys are the consummate key-down-for-10-minutes ragchewers, and you should have something interesting to say. But I doubt you would have much trouble these days.
 
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