Cass County Systems

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realgeo

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Good evening, everyone!

Been a long time since I posted, so I'd like to wish everyone a VERY Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

So, I thought I'd post on a topic that those of us in the Cass County area know very well.

As you all may know, Cass County has recently transitioned both the Plattsmouth PD and Cass County Sheriff radio systems into the 800MHz. band. Going along with this change, a push has been made to move most Fire/Rescue departments off of 39.9/39.98/39.82 systems and onto a new VHF repeater channel.

PPD uses a single 800Mhz. channel, and from what I've heard from several people who use it, it works pretty well.

CCSO uses THREE channels, including one on the same tower as PPD, one on a tower east of Murray, and one on the KPTM tower southwest of Gretna.

The various Fire/Rescue departments use a VHF repeater which has actual repeater units on the HW50/HW1 Manley tower and on the same "Murray" tower as the CCSO.

We've hashed this all before, but what I have never been able to figure out is why the designers of the Cass County 800MHz. system didn't implement a voting configuration for the CCSO part of the system, and for the "Cass Fire" VHF repeater system?

Currently, if a Deputy is sitting in front of the Murray VFD station (tuned to the Murray tower) and wants to talk with a Deputy sitting in Louisville (tuned to the West tower), they're out of luck because the repeaters don't allow that kind of interaction.

The Dispatchers, I believe, have the capability of talking over all of the CCSO channels, but the mobiles/portables are stuck with the channel they're on.

Plus, the deputies have to be cognizant of where they're located so that they can tune their radios to the proper Tower.

A voted receiver system makes sense, even today, since the microwave is already in-place. The issue, of course, is that coverage from a single transmit site is outside of the installed configuration.

Take this a step further and apply it to the "Cass Fire" 154.385 repeaters. If you voted this system the same way as the 800 MHz. system, coverage would improve and the departments wouldn't have to constantly figure out which tower (East or West) to be on.

The current work on the Cass County communications system has improved things. However, many recent major incidents, including 3 today and 1 Thursday evening, have maginifed the fact that despite the upgrade to 800MHz. and VHF, work on making it easy for agencies to talk to one another is still needed.

73's
 

obijohn

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Hi Geo. You have to love the irony of this new system. Before it was built, Weeping Water
had the best coverage. And now the deputies can't hear the repeaters when in that town.

I don't even want to go into the details of the nearsitedness that caused them to not be able to use P25 over this new $100,000.00 plus system. What a waste!
 

wb0qqk

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obijohn said:
Hi Geo. You have to love the irony of this new system. Before it was built,
Weeping Water had the best coverage. And now the deputies can't hear the repeaters
when in that town.
I don't even want to go into the details of the nearsitedness that caused them to not be
able to use P25 over this new $100,000.00 plus system. What a waste!

Is this a Motorola engineered system?
 

wb0qqk

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obijohn said:
Hi Geo. You have to love the irony of this new system. Before it was built,
Weeping Water had the best coverage. And now the deputies can't hear the repeaters
when in that town.
I don't even want to go into the details of the nearsitedness that caused them to not be
able to use P25 over this new $100,000.00 plus system. What a waste!

It appears to be just a typical 800 conventional system. Why bother?
They would have been better served if they had stayed on VHF and added voting receivers.

Edited: I did a search on some of the previous postings and found the answers I was looking for.
What a pitiful waste of taxpayer's money.
 
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realgeo

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Greetings, everyone!

Well, I certainly didn't mean to create a "bash Cass County" session here, but it's weird how certain events bring things to mind!

One late night, not so long ago, a CCSO Deputy began to tail a car in the Mynard area. Without recalling all of the details, the Deputy followed the car north of HW66, west to nearly Cedar Creek, back south toward HW1, east to 42nd St., and south of HW1 to where the chase ended, south of Conestoga HS. The suspects were tossing meth and drug-related items along the way.

During the trip, I'd imagine that the Deputy had to be aware of the requirement for changing channels as he drove out of the range of one 800MHz. site to the others. This trip started the Deputy on the "Northeast" tower, took him to the "West" tower, and finally ended him up on the "South" tower. Listening to the whole thing on my scanner, I could tell that communications were not at their best. Maybe the Deputy switched-over to his cellular at some point, but I know that Plattsmouth PD was monitoring and relaying for him.

Had he been on a VHF voted system, no channel-changing would've been required. I'm not saying that he would've had 100% coverage, but I am saying that voting would've helped - and it would help the normal operations of the system, as I have stated before.

The other event happened on Sunday, 12/23, where a father and son assumed "10-7" status due to a fatal impact with a northbound train south of Union, NE, just inside of Otoe county. Sad.

Again, without knowing all of the details, Nehawka responded with a large contingent, as Union was apparently under-staffed at the time. Otoe County, from what I'm told, also responded.

The scene was located in a bottom, where communication via Cass Fire was nearly impossible. How did they do it? Everyone talked on 39.980 because Nehawka, and later Union, were unable to hit Cass Fire East, due to terrain. 39.980 probably would've been a requirement anyway, since Otoe county was involved, but that addresses the need to be able to talk to surrounding agencies.

I'm guessing that had a voting receiver been installed on that abandoned microwave tower southeast of Avoca, NE, you may not have had the "blackout" on Cass Fire. This is "dreaming" because obviously, that tower was not available or the availability cost too much.

The neat part about these forums is that we can speculate and "dream" without having to make anything work! I think ObiJohn and QQK hit it on the head. Things could've been much different on VHF, with voting receivers at KOTD, KPTM, Murray, and Avoca. The Avoca site, in particular, would've filled-in Weeping Water, Nehawka, and Union - the towns sitting "below the shelf" along HW34. My personal preference would've kept the transmitters at the Manley tower, but that's my "dream"!

It would be sad, indeed, if the current system is unable, as ObiJohn speculated, to support P25 IMBE traffic. I can't imagine why this would be, but maybe it's going to take an upgraded system to make this happen. Lack of P25 prevents Cass County from using a technology that is rapidly becoming the defacto standard in the Public Safety communications space.

Again, I'm not trying to crack on anyone - we have to live with what we have, and it's not useful to bash what's been built or those who built it. However, we have the freedom to discuss it!

73's
 

realgeo

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wb0qqk said:
It appears to be just a typical 800 conventional system. Why bother?
They would have been better served if they had stayed on VHF and added voting receivers.

Edited: I did a search on some of the previous postings and found the answers I was looking for.
What a pitiful waste of taxpayer's money.

Howdy, Frank!

Yep - all four (4) of the CCSO / PPD channels are just regular repeaters linked to Plattsmouth via microwave. The repeaters are "islands" as far as tower-to-tower communication is concerned, but Plattsmouth can talk on all of them simultaneously.

In the interest of information, are there some links that we all could visit?

73's
 

obijohn

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realgeo said:
Howdy, Frank!

Yep - all four (4) of the CCSO / PPD channels are just regular repeaters linked to Plattsmouth via microwave. The repeaters are "islands" as far as tower-to-tower communication is concerned, but Plattsmouth can talk on all of them simultaneously.

In the interest of information, are there some links that we all could visit?

73's


You know...This all could have been avoided if they had just built-out their VHF system, which was ALREADY interoperable.

This is what they get for listening to the state. Although, I am not personally familiar with
any conditions the state mandated to Cass County in order for them to receive Homeland security funds, I am sure the state was happy when they used $50,000 of the grant to build a new tower at Plattsmouth.

The State is planning on using that tower in their proposal to build the new statewide VHF
NSP radio network.

The County, and City for that matter can use P25 on the new repeaters by simply installing an XTL1500 radio on each channel, and interfacing it to the BIM for each channel on the console.

But that pretty much kills the simulcast advantage.

I have personal experience in the cost of P25 capable consoles. My employer just got a bid of over $225,000 for a single console position from motorola, and we STILL have to have an XTL radio at over $3000 to talk to our mobiles on the ORIN system!

Like Frank said, what a waste of taxpayer $.

Happy new year to all RR members.
 

SDOG

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Cass County

I am fairly familiar with what had happened with the way the system ended up. I know that the county wanted to build out the VHF system and had a good plan to do so.. It included several more sites and voting repeaters. But when it was taken to the state for approval, they did not like the VHF proposal at all, and that they should strongly consider 800mhz.. for interoperability reasons. It was "Strongly" recomended... The way it was explained to me is that the state would not sign off on the vhf proposal no matter what. So they went the direction that the state wanted them to go. As far the county portion goes and I cannot speak for them. When I left the country for a Military Deployment they were still on VHF. The PD however has probably the best communications they have ever had. They have never had good port to port coverage until now. The only week spot for them that I am aware of is when the officers are at the LEC in the garage, or in the lower level of the building. As far as officer safety goes this was the best thing that could happen. Now.. if some one calls for help, they know that someone will hear them.

Just my .02 worth..

Happy New Year to all!!

SDOG
 
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