Lt51506 said:
What I was refferring to was a comm link on the admin net. Didn't have anything to do with flight following. Just a link to pass information. I'm not sure about the bombshell application...maybe a bottle rocket. I do remember clearly in 1981, sitting in the tower at Ryan AAB, and listening to one of the USFS people exchanging order numbers with South Zone dispatch. When they were finished, I asked where their info was sent to. I was to it goes to Idaho and normally they'd do it from there, but the microwave was down. I never gave it any thought after that.
At that time, just about every CDF facility could key a mike and talk directly with Sacremento via microwave...thus I figured it was the same type or simular system. The radio system in my tanker had the capability of two cans and a string, so it's very possible I may be way off base here. I wasn't a radio enthuist back then and have not honestly given much thought to the old systems we had, all I knew was that I didn't care for them very much.
I know the new systems are quite a piece of work and have capabilities we only dreamed of back then. So, if I misguided anyone, please accept my apology. I was just referencing from memory.
The Forest Service system you are referring to is made up of UHF and VHF frequencies and is known as the "South Zone Net." The two main hubs on this system are at Frazier and Santiago. Unless something has changed recently almost all of it is linked without microwave. The one exception I know of is the dispatch center for the Inyo National Forest and the Bishop Field Office of the BLM. They had a lot of trouble on the Cerro Gordo Peak (NE side of Owens Dry Lake) to Frazier path so they have hitched a ride on the state's microwave.
There is a North Ops network also and it uses low band frequencies and perhaps a VHF-High in a place or two. I don't remember right now. The hub of this system is at Saint John Mountain, just north of Clear Lake.
It should be noted that these two nets are only used to connect Forest Service, Park Service, and CDF dispatch centers. It is a dispatcher's intercom and field units don't use it.
As far as I know orders from each Geographical Area Coordinating Center (GACC) are forwarded to NIFC via phone or computer. In 1981 this would have been by phone as computer linking was not available then. My impression is that now, most of this information exchange is done by computer as there are software programs developed for tracking orders and resources that are a huge improvement over the old voice method. From what I have heard this has reduced the amount of traffic on California's two GACC nets. The Forest Service did not begin implementing the FLIP system (Forest Level Information Processing or "DG" for Date General) until 1984 and it was not completed nationwide until 1986 or 1987. That is why you heard order numbers being discussed on the South Zone net in 1981.
The only two Region wide systems I've ever heard of was the Pacific Southwest Region's Travel Net and the Intermountain Region's Calling Channel. As you might know, the Pacific Southwest Region (R5) of the USFS lost their travel net system to Homeland Security. I've been told that the Regional Calling Channel in the Intermountain Region (R4) has been removed from all the mountain tops. These are the only regional type systems I've ever heard of as man of the other Geographical Areas list 168.350 as a simplex travel channel.
Not all National Forests are using microwave to link their Forest Net systems for various reasons, one being that many of their sites don't have commercial power. When I was in the Southwestern Region of the Forest Service 1973-1981, construction on a Region wide microwave system, that would be used to link repeaters on each Forest and Forest to Forest, began. I don't know if they completed it as I transferred out of that region just as the first National Forest, the Cibola, installed theirs. They expected to complete one Forest per year for about 10 years and with 11 Forests in the Region, would have had the ability to send voice and data traffic all around the Region. When the long distance phone carriers got word of this they protested and the word at the time of my transfer was that we would not be able to carry our long distance phone communications on this network, in spite of huge savings to the federal government. The capability to add sufficient microwave channels to the system to carry all the telephone long distance traffic between Forest Service offices was going to be minimal in cost, something like 10% or less, and would have been quickly recouped, but apparently Congress had made a deal with the long distance carriers some years prior that most agency personnel had never heard of.
In California some of the Forests use microwave to link their repeaters, but not all. As far as I know the systems of each Forest are not linked. I've heard that some Forests are removing microwave and going back to 400 MHz links due to the high cost of powering and maintaining microwave sites.
As for the State of California, they have an extensive microwave backbone system and many different systems can be controlled by centralized dispatch centers, agency Sacramento headquarters, and the OES op center near Sacramento. I've never heard CDF repeaters being used by Sacramento here in the eastern Sierra, but then CDF traffic here is very light. Locally, I've heard OES, Caltrans, State Parks, and Fish and Game repeaters being used by OES Sacramento (now at Mather), Caltrans Sacramento, and of course, State Parks and Fish and Game being dispatched by "Northern" in Rancho Cordova. I know that at one time, the state had a long distance phone system for state agencies on their microwave, and commonly called it the "green phone." I don't know what the current status of this system is.
If I've missed a radio/microwave network that wildland fire agencies use, someone please step in and let us know.
