cell phone passive antenna

[7designs]

My house is surrounded by trees. In the winter I have good cell service, in the summer is another story. I am within range of the tower, the trees just block signal.

I am considering building a passive antenna. I will use two antennas, one mounted in the house then the other 35ft up on my tower.

Anyone build something like this?
Anyone have any advice or info?

Can I just connect the two antennas together with coax, maybe use 75ohm and 75/300 baulns, or is there a better way?

 

[popnokick]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10A403 Safari/8536.25)

Fun maybe. But would be more effective to contact your cell carrier about getting a femtocell. AT&T calls them Microcells, Verizon "Network Extender". They create a mini cell site in your house when you plug the device into your Internet connection.
Oh... They are active, not passive devices so maybe don't belong in this category. But if better cellphone performance is what you need, femtocells are more effective than passive repeaters. And unlike cellular repeaters are fully endorsed and supported by the cell carriers.

 

[mmckenna]

Unlikely this will solve the issue.

Trouble is the wet foliage does a really good job of absorbing RF.

Using an outdoor donor antenna is a good start, but you need a LOT of signal at the donor antenna to overcome coaxial losses and get enough signal out inside your home to make a difference.

At minimum, you need a high gain directional antenna on your roof, and really low loss coax, on the order of 1/2 inch hard line or better to even get something that will register.

Rather than spending the money on the high gain antenna and high end coax, you would likely be better served by purchasing one of the Wilson or similar units designed for this, or the Femto/pico cell modules sold by the carriers.

RG-6 and a couple of mobile antennas are not going to work, but you could certainly try. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again, just check with my wife.

 

[mmckenna]

Popnokick is right on. The Wilson and similar bi-directional amplifiers (BDA's) start to get on the wrong side of the FCC. Technically (depending on who you talk to) BDA's are only supposed to be installed and operated by the license holder of the system, in your case, the carrier.
I'd save yourself a lot of headache and bypass the experimentation, it's all been tried before and it rarely works. Go with the Pico or Femto cell solution and be done.

 

[kb2vxa]

"Technically (depending on who you talk to) BDA's are only supposed to be installed and operated by the license holder of the system, in your case, the carrier."

What do you mean depending on who you talk to, a slick salesman or the FCC? They are NOT Part 15 devices so may only be operated by a licensed operator as is any transmitter not covered under Part 15.

Don't complain to us, if you have lousy service contact your service provider. It's their responsibility to give you what you're paying for and don't put up with robbery.

 

[mmckenna]

"Technically (depending on who you talk to) BDA's are only supposed to be installed and operated by the license holder of the system, in your case, the carrier."

What do you mean depending on who you talk to, a slick salesman or the FCC? They are NOT Part 15 devices so may only be operated by a licensed operator as is any transmitter not covered under Part 15.

Don't complain to us, if you have lousy service contact your service provider. It's their responsibility to give you what you're paying for and don't put up with robbery.

I mean that depending on who you talk to, you'll get different stories. Technically you are not supposed to install them on your own without the carrier being involved, just like I said. On the other hand, companies like Wilson sell these things all over the USA and haven't been stopped. So, if you talk to a vendor that sells Wilson equipment, you can do whatever you want. If you talk to the carriers, they'll tell you that you can't. If you call the FCC, well, they rarely know what's really going on in those call centers.

 

[mmckenna]

To complicate the issue. I can purchase BDA's for my 800MHz trunked system all day long legally as my employer is the license holder. Those BDAs are often wide enough that they will work for Nextel and other carriers on 800MHz. So who's license am I working under and what about Nextel, guess it depends on what your opinion is.

 

[n5ims]

My house is surrounded by trees. In the winter I have good cell service, in the summer is another story. I am within range of the tower, the trees just block signal.

I am considering building a passive antenna. I will use two antennas, one mounted in the house then the other 35ft up on my tower.

Anyone build something like this?
Anyone have any advice or info?

Can I just connect the two antennas together with coax, maybe use 75ohm and 75/300 baulns, or is there a better way?

Check this thread (http://forums.radioreference.com/electronics/248556-cellphone-repeaters.html) to see how another user resolved a similar issue recently.

 

[mancow]

Good grief, the FCC does not care about a Wilson repeater. If they did they wouldn't be freely advertised and sold literally everywhere.

 

[mmckenna]

Good grief, the FCC does not care about a Wilson repeater. If they did they wouldn't be freely advertised and sold literally everywhere.

Exactly, but this is Radio Reference, so there just HAS to be an argument.

 

[kb2vxa]

You just don't get it, do you?! The FCC has nothing to do with sales, Wilson or the man in the moon. Cell phone jammers are illegal but you still can buy them, right? The FCC only cares about operating a radio transmitter so go ahead and set one up on your own and if it causes interference or improper operation on the cell network you'll find out pretty quick what's up when they come knocking.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of LAW so if you get a visit and a week later an NAL shows up in the mail don't come crying to RR, just pay the fine.

 

[traumacop]

OMG Warren your still at it?

Wilson is working with cell companies to improve the market for everyone. Its not a complicated issue..... unless you make it that way.

Large corps wouldn't blatantly open themselves up for the fines & you can see these devices everywhere. Just look at your phone the next time your in a big building.


http://us.generation-nt.com/wilson-...ement-its-joint-fcc-filing-press-3041481.html


Darrin kb8ecf

Sent from the trenches of Cbus on my DROID RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

 

[mmckenna]

Like I said, it's gotta be an argument.
I fully understand the FCC doesn't care, never said they did, only that if you start diving deep into the rules, some know-it-all will interpret it as a violation. BDA's can feedback and start oscillating and take out other services. We had a Nextel BDA system that was installed BY Nextel start doing this and completely wiped out one of our 800MHz trunked system channels. I've had smaller BDA's installed by individuals do the same thing. They can be hard to find and can cause a lot of troubles. We've had to disable channels on our system because of this in the past.

By all means, buy a Wilson system! Or, if you call your carrier and be really nice, patient and ask nicely, they sometimes take pity on you and will send you a femto/picocell unit for free or reduced price. But if you really want to spend money, then go with the Wilson and don't call your carrier.

So, Warren/KB2VXA, I know you love to argue, and I don't. You can be right and I'm happy to be wrong, all so you can have your hamsexy ego stroked.

Now, can we all just move on?

 

[zz0468]

There always has to be an argument about these things, but let me add my spin to the thread. I've had some direct experience...

1. FCC rules are quite explicit about the use of cellular BDA's. There are clearly illegal unless operated by the system licensee.

2. Wilson clearly doesn't see it that way, and states on their web pages that they're legal. In the context of a manufacturer's point of view, they ARE legal to manufacture and sell. They are only legal to operate if the user get's permission from the cellular carrier.

3. Installed improperly, the potential for severe interference is quite real. "Proper" installation requires the use of things like spectrum analyzers, which most consumers don't have access to.

4. I have personally located improperly installed and operated cellular BDA's that were severely impacting service on public safety systems. You better believe the homeowners where surprised to see me knocking on their door. "How did you find it?" they ask. The 2 watts of noise power and flying spurs are not difficult to track down.

6. Anyone who says that they are completely legal for a homeowner to install and operate is poorly informed. Anyone who says the FCC doesn't care about them is poorly informed. Anyone who thinks that the cellular companies are ok with anybody installing these things anywhere is poorly informed. I have spoken to the FCC and most of the major cellular carriers, and they're very much NOT ok with random installation of BDA's. They understand the interference potential they create.

7. Wilson manufactures the most poorly designed BDA's I have ever encountered. Plastic boxes with no shielding, overload detection devices that function poorly or not at all. Feedback coupling from antennas direct to circuit boards because of poor or non-existant shielding. In a word, they're junk.

A few points of clarification from RFSolutions, an industry-recognized and respected source of BDA's:

47FCR22 is they federal regulation the all cellular companies must operate within

Yeah, I'm dead set against these things. I'm the guy who get's to knock on your door at 2AM to shut the damned thing off because it's causing interference. It's not an aspect of my job that I much care for.

 

[zz0468]

To complicate the issue. I can purchase BDA's for my 800MHz trunked system all day long legally as my employer is the license holder. Those BDAs are often wide enough that they will work for Nextel and other carriers on 800MHz. So who's license am I working under and what about Nextel, guess it depends on what your opinion is.

You should understand the difference between class A and class B BDA's, and where it's legal to use one or the other. Lot's of class B BDA's end up being installed where a class A BDA should be used, and the legality of the whole operation ends up in a gray area.

 

[mmckenna]

Yep, and Ive seen carriers install both. I'm thinking it comes down to the costs, and what they think they can get away with in each situation. Since they are installed on our facility, we've always had lines written into the lease documents that we can have them shut down any and all equipment at our request if we feel it's operating in a way that's affecting our systems.

 

[mmckenna]

and, my previous comments were directed towards consumer BDA's. I agree, I made the mistake of purchasing one of the plastic Wilson phone docks with amp. It does work most of the time, but not always. It's sitting up in the garage now, likely never to be used again.

 

[traumacop]

Like I said, it's gotta be an argument.


So, Warren/KB2VXA, I know you love to argue, and I don't. You can be right and I'm happy to be wrong, all so you can have your hamsexy ego stroked.

Now, can we all just move on?

Where is the thumbs up button.........



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[kb2vxa]

"6. Anyone who says that they are completely legal for a homeowner to install and operate is poorly informed. Anyone who says the FCC doesn't care about them is poorly informed. Anyone who thinks that the cellular companies are ok with anybody installing these things anywhere is poorly informed. I have spoken to the FCC and most of the major cellular carriers, and they're very much NOT ok with random installation of BDA's. They understand the interference potential they create."

Thanks, I see I'm not the only one who does his homework and speak with authority from a base of informed knowledge.

"Now, can we all just move on?"

Certainly, at this point I couldn't care less where most of you move to, you have made it clear we cast pearls before swine. I for one am moving where I don't have to be the butt of insults from those lacking understanding and can't present a valid argument so resort to mud slinging. Frankly I won't lower myself, further response is beneath my dignity so bye y'all, catch you in the spring.