Central Indiana - DMR or Fusion?

[KD9SPR]

Looking for a new HT, not sure that I want or need digital but there seems to be a big decision to make if get one… DMR or Fusion/Yaesu (or d-star which seems to be distant third). Yaesu FT3D model seems to have all the features I would like, although a bit pricey and Fusion. I would prefer DMR mostly since it seems to be supported by multiple brands.

if I were to get Yaesu I feel like I’m locking myself in to Yaesu for other future purchases (mobile eventually).

So is one or the other better supported by repeaters/users in Central Indiana? Looking at RepeaterBook, there are approximately the same number of each. I can’t tell if they are reliable, regularly monitored/maintained, good coverage as far as power/height, etc.

 

[eaf1956]

I have both Fusion and DMR radios and tend to use DMR more often. It's really a personal choice. DMR has it's little spats between Brandmiester and TGIF along with others. And as you said with FUSION your only choice is Yaesu.

 

[AK9R]

Do you really need digital voice? What do you want to accomplish with amateur radio that requires digital voice? If you are looking for repeater linking, there are very good Echolink and IRLP analog repeaters in central Indiana that don't require you to get a digital voice radio.

Among currently available radios:

• There are no currently-available handhelds for D-STAR. Icom has discontinued all of their models and the ID-52 was supposed to be out by now, but chip shortages and production delays have slowed the release. Kenwood had the TH-D74, but it has been discontinued due to chip shortages. Used ones are going for crazy money.
• Yaesu is your only option for System Fusion handhelds. The FT-70DR is an inexpensive way into Fusion. The FT-3DR is more money, but adds true dual-band capability, color display, and APRS. If I really wanted a digital voice handheld, this is the way I'd go.
• None of the traditional amateur radio manufacturers produce DMR handhelds for the amateur radio market. That leaves you with Chinese radios from Anytone, Baofeng, Radioddity, Tytera (TYT), etc. Support can be iffy for these radios and firmware updates are frequent to correct errors in functionality.

There are many Yaesu System Fusion repeaters on the air in central Indiana, but not all of them are set up for YSF mode or connected to the WIRES-X network. I'm pretty sure that 147.255 in Martinsville, 441.575 in Noblesville, 442.775 in Danville, and 443.750 in Indianapolis are on WIRES-X.

DMR has struggled in central Indiana. There are a few repeaters, but not all of them have Internet connections and there have been disagreements about which DMR network they'll be connected to. The Hoosier DMR group on Facebook may be your best source of information about active repeaters.

As for RepeaterBook, their listings are not always reliable.

 

[west-pac]

I'll add, also with a DMR radio it gives you the ability to monitor public safety, schools, and business band DMR frequencies.

 

[KD9SPR]

Digital isn’t tops on my list but FT3DR covers all(?) my other wishlist items (dual band Tx, APRS, air band Rx, Bluetooth, ?). I would like a $200 model with these features and not digital but haven’t been able to identify one. There are a couple close in the $250 range (Anytone) but they don’t have air band. Wouxun UV9K has air but not APRS.

I’m new so I don’t really know exactly what I need. I want lots of features though (-:

 

[popnokick]

Alinco (a Japanese manufacturer) makes more than one DMR radio, both HT and mobile. I'll let those reading decide if Alinco is a "traditional Amateur Radio manufacturer". Another manufacturer of DMR equipment is of course Motorola.... and many will argue M is not a "traditional Amateur Radio manufacturer".... yet there is a LOT of M's gear being used by hams.

 

[Hit_Factor]

Digital isn’t tops on my list but FT3DR covers all(?)

APRS implementation on FT3DR is really weak, not the full APRS suite.

Anytone 878UVII (careful with the model numbers, D878UV is only a APRS beacon) or Kenwood TH-D74 (only available used) if APRS is important to you.

If you use a hotspot, it doesn't really matter what the local repeaters can handle.

 

[wa8pyr]

As for RepeaterBook, their listings are not always reliable.

I'll second that. It's not bad as a starting point, though.

 

[KD9SPR]

APRS implementation on FT3DR is really weak, not the full APRS suite.

Thank you for the feedback. For me hotspots and most internet connected ham coms don’t make sense. If I have cellular coverage there are numerous ways to communicate over the internet. For someone with established ham contacts, I guess maybe it would be more useful.

With aprs I was thinking of it as an emergency location device (hiking/?). Obviously my HT would have to hit a repeater though. I’ll investigate ft3dr aprs shortcomings more (I thought Tx and Rx was all I would need). Aprs for emergency tracking is a use case I would like the data to end up on internet.

Amsat is another area I’d like to explore (more just to say I have sent data through ISS).

I was able to successfully Tx aprs from my iPhone speaker into my cheap Baofeng mic last weekend, so maybe that’s all I need (-:

Thanks again!

 

[AK9R]

Alinco (a Japanese manufacturer) makes more than one DMR radio, both HT and mobile.

Thanks. I forgot about Alinco. But, I believe their DMR radios are repackaged Anytones, aren't they?

For me hotspots and most internet connected ham coms don’t make sense

For those who don't have access to an HF station, Internet connected VHF/UHF repeaters are a viable means of making contacts with hams outside the reach of local repeaters.

With aprs I was thinking of it as an emergency location device (hiking/?).

You'd probably have a more reliable position location system by looking at the Garmin hiking products that can send your position through orbiting satellites. The problem with APRS is that you will be very dependent on local digipeaters and I-Gates. I can speak from experience that APRS coverage in parts of the state and national forests in southern Indiana is not the best.

I’ll investigate ft3dr aprs shortcomings more (I thought Tx and Rx was all I would need).

The issue with all of the Yaesu APRS radios is that they don't give you full access to the TNC like Kenwood APRS radios do. With a Yaesu APRS radio, you can still send/receive APRS position reports, weather info, short text messages.

Until, and if, Kenwood comes out with a replacement for the TH-D74, the Yaesu FT-3DR is probably the best analog/digital voice/APRS true dual-band handheld on the market.

 

[KD9SPR]

APRS coverage in parts of the state and national forests in southern Indiana is not the best

I was afraid of that. I should get off Youtube and stick with my Baofeng.

I know that APRS has a defined freq, is there a list of known good coverage VHF/UHF repeaters in Indiana? Someone mentioned that RepeaterBook isn't always accurate (it also doesn't give any indication of coverage/usage). I would like to put together and program a list by geographic area around the state, what is the best/top repeater? I'm not sure if the codeplug term applies here, or just to DMR... A "coverage map" would be interesting (obviously my radio would have smaller area to Tx than I could Rx from)

I appreciate your feedback as I have veered off course from my original DMR vs Fusion question. Searching this forum seems to be heavily into police scanners. Is there a better internet forum for Indiana Hams?

 

[sallen07]

Thanks. I forgot about Alinco. But, I believe their DMR radios are repackaged Anytones, aren't they?

I haven't seen it anywhere in writing, but my bet is that the Alinco DMR radios are built in the same factory as the Anytone ones. Certainly the CPS is almost identical. But the repackaging is much more than "slap our name on the front". I have a DJ-MD5 (great radio) which would definitely appear to be a re-engineered Anytone 878 but the form-factor is very different. Same can be said about the new Alinco DR-MD500T which is the same or very similar to the Anytone 578 under the hood but has a different front panel design.

 

[sallen07]

For me hotspots and most internet connected ham coms don’t make sense. If I have cellular coverage there are numerous ways to communicate over the internet. For someone with established ham contacts, I guess maybe it would be more useful.

To each his or her own. That's one of the great things about ham radio ... lots of room for different interests.

I can't speak for the other digital modes, but I know that a lot of hams are using DMR to talk to folks "back home". Sure, they could use HF for that, but I never hear anyone talking about whether or not the DMR bands are open.

Using DMR *can* mean "HT->Hotspot->Internet->Hotspot->HT" or even "Smartphone/PC->Internet->Smartphone/PC" but it doesn't *have* to be that way. It works great going through a repeater, just like analog FM. Personally I much prefer to hit the local repeater but it's also nice to be able to walk around the house with an HT (that wouldn't be able to hit the repeater) and use my hotspot.

 

[JASII]

Go to the Play Store and download Droid Star. Give ALL of the various digital modes a try. It is a free app and it can be downloaded onto an Android smartphone or tablet. After playing with ALL of them for a while, you will be in a better position to make a decision.

 

[AK9R]

...is there a list of known good coverage VHF/UHF repeaters in Indiana?

You can search the list of coordinated repeaters in Indiana here: Indiana Repeater Council Database Search
I'm not saying it's 100% accurate or that every coordinated repeater is actually on the air, but we keep working to clean up the database.

To each his or her own. That's one of the great things about ham radio ... lots of room for different interests.

Absolutely. Just because I don't care for digital voice modes doesn't mean that it's not a good solution for others.

As for the bands being "open", often times the bands appear "closed" because nobody has bothered to make a call.