CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[255-Jacobs]

New 17 looks incredible. Imagine all the room in the bay floors. I think previous discussions we've had in this forum last year involved the potential of TR10 and TRS10 moving to 17 and TR11 and TRS11 moving to 16. Personally I think the TRs should stay where they are. Mixing HazMat AND Technical Rescue in one hall seems a little to much. It's better to keep them spread out. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I think Hazmat and Heavy Rescue should be separated too. Too many eggs in one basket and too much equipment and tech training taking place in one building.

Having a Hazmat unit in 10 would be nice, saves 17 from the long daily runs to downtown. Maybe in the future a Rescue could be relocated back to 4 or to 5, 2 or make a real shake up and put it in 6. Time will tell but a change is coming soon. I could see an outlying station like 37 or 33 getting a second unit soon

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

I'd like to see the TRT move to 17. Being one of two stations in the city (and the only non-ARFF) 5 bay hall, definitely deserves to have some big trucks there. I think making 17E a TRT Engine, crossed with TRS17 would be great. TR17 would be good for coverage still, (Wouldn't get sucked downtown on bell calls)

I also think a Hazmat at 10 would be a pretty good choice. Again good access, inner city, and could take all the DT calls, so 4HM can stay on the east side where the fires are. The Ladder and BB would be an interesting choice, I'm not sure if you could keep it in 17 with the TRT, but it also can't go to 10 (L6 can't move, BB is [pretty much useless in Briar Hill)

I think the best choice would be to send it to 28. Good runs into 21, 42, 40 or 36 when they have multiple townhouses going up. Plus BB28 gets to stay near Nose Hill Park.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I can think of a lot of reasons why L6 can't move but is there an official reason? Having 2 Ladders downtown will probably never change. A new class of recruits is set to graduate and hit the streets in December, we should see more Ladders/Rescues getting a 3rd/4th FF but a lot of Engines are getting a 5th firefighter and sounds like HRS 2 is being staffed with 4 on occasion. Changes by day by day.
2 new Ford Transit vans are sitting in the snow at the shops, maybe new investigators? The Pierce Voltarra is in the shops as well

 

[255-Jacobs]

I think the reason L6 won't move is because it's current location is too good. Think about it. Access to the DT connector routes to respond anywhere in the core. Access to 10th St to make their way into the North into 10s district and access to 14th St to go further south if need be. They also have pretty good access to get into the West via Bow Tr and Crowchild Tr if Ladder 8 is unavailable. And the fact that the core needs more then one Ladder. If there's any move I want to see in the DT core then it would be a rescue moving back into the core. This frees up 10 from getting tied into the alarm bells in DT. They're cancelled most of the time anyway. 10 can focus more on taking North and West calls. Only issue I see is that there's not really much spaces in Downtown to put a Rescue unless CFD feels like kicking EMS out of Station 1 or 2. So for now 10 takes DT runs.

I'd like to see the TRT move to 17. Being one of two stations in the city (and the only non-ARFF) 5 bay hall, definitely deserves to have some big trucks there. I think making 17E a TRT Engine, crossed with TRS17 would be great. TR17 would be good for coverage still, (Wouldn't get sucked downtown on bell calls)

I also think a Hazmat at 10 would be a pretty good choice. Again good access, inner city, and could take all the DT calls, so 4HM can stay on the east side where the fires are. The Ladder and BB would be an interesting choice, I'm not sure if you could keep it in 17 with the TRT, but it also can't go to 10 (L6 can't move, BB is [pretty much useless in Briar Hill)

I think the best choice would be to send it to 28. Good runs into 21, 42, 40 or 36 when they have multiple townhouses going up. Plus BB28 gets to stay near Nose Hill Park.

A HazMat at 10 is not a bad idea at all. I can see it working out in a lot of ways. But I guess CFD would still have to figure out a way to get a Rescue to get into the core. A Rescue from 17 would take a bit so one would be needed in DT. But like I stated above, CFDs options for putting a rescue back inside the core are well...Limited.

Moving onto the topic of BBs. A BB at 28 would be pretty beneficial for the 4th District. Nose Hill burns easily so it's good to have a BB that can get there in less then 8 minutes and get an initial knock instead of waiting for 17 or 31 to arrive. Works well for other 4th District Stations that may need a BB to respond for back country rescues or brush fires. Frees up 31 to take more calls East as well so 23 doesn't have to wait forever.

 

[RP201]

17 is a great spot for a technical team. Move the Haz to 10, and here is a thought… move HRS 2 to 10, then move 6L over too 2. Basically 2 becomes a mirror of 1.

From what I understand, the high rise is essentially a manpower, Rehab Unit. Basically an On Scene Support Unit. From 10 they could cover the NW and SW, and a short run into the core if they are needed for a “high rise” job.

Station 6 is so specialized with water rescue, dive and I bet ice rescue, that a Rescue truck with some extra aquatic gear on board would help. Run a crew of 8 or 9 out of that station. Plus it solves the issue of a downtown rescue.

Of course this would create a gap in Ladder coverage to the north, especially if 17L moves to 28.

This move would probably mean the A/L would need to move further south, and re jig 4.

The whole thing is like playing Tetris.

With the new equipment trickling in, and more importantly, new staff on the floor, I’m looking forward to seeing some new moves.

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

Apologize for the length of this, but bare with my thought process here:

Station 1: Engine 01, Engine 301, Ladder 01, MRU, 01
Station 2: Engine 02, Engine 302, MRU 02
Station 4: Engine 04, Rescue 04, Hazmat 04, Recovery 04 (16REC to Stn.4)
Station 5: Engine 05, DC02, IV01
Station 6: Engine 06, Ladder 06, Aquatic Rescue 06, Boat Tow 06, Jet Boat 06
Station 7: Engine 07 (Volterra), FRP07, ATV07
Station 8: Engine 08, Tower Ladder 08, Bush Buggy 8 (19TW to Stn.8)
Station 9: Engine 09, IV03
Station 10: Engine 10, High Rise 10, Hazmat 10 (2HRS to Stn.10 / 17HM to Stn.10)
Station 11: Engine 11, Engine 311 (314EN to Stn.11)
Station 12: Engine 12, Engine 312, Ladder 12, Bush Buggy 12 (23BB to Stn.12) (2025 Pierce Straight Stick)
Station 14: Engine 14, Ladder 14 (19LA to Stn.14)
Station 15: Engine 15
Station 16: Engine 16, Technical Rescue 16, Technical Support 16, Panel 16, DC1, Battalion Chief, FAN 16, GEN 01 (11TRT to Stn.16)
Fire Headquarters: POD 01, POD 02, Mobile Command, HazTech 01, HazTech 03, Hazmat Support 02, POD: HM/TRT/FLD/DEC/RHB/125
Station 17: Engine 17, Technical Rescue 17, Technical Support 17 (10TRT to Stn.17)
Station 18: Engine 18, Tower Ladder 18, Bush Buggy 18, Generator 02 (31TW, 31BB, 02Gen to Stn.18)
Station 19: Engine 19
Station 20: Engine 20, Rescue 20, FRP20, ATV20, (8RES to Stn.20)
Station 21: Engine 21, Tender 21, Boat Tow 21, Jet Boat 21, DC4
Station 22: Engine 22, Engine 322
Station 23: Engine 23, Air Light 23 (04AL to Stn.23)
Station 24: Engine 24, DC3 (20DC to Stn.24
Station 25: Engine 25, Tower Ladder 25, Tender 25
Station 26: Engine 26, Ladder 26, Bush Buggy 26 (19BB / 30LA to Stn.26)
Station 27: Engine 27
Station 28: Engine 28, Ladder 28, Bush Buggy 28 (17LA / 17BB to Stn.28)
Station 29: Engine 29
Station 30: Engine 30, Rescue 30, Boat Tow 30, Jet Boat 30 (39RES to Stn.30)
Station 31: Engine 31, Rescue 31 (27RE to Stn.31)
Station 32: Engine 32, Ladder 32, DC5
Station 33: Engine 33
Station 34: Engine 34, Rescue 34
Station 35: Engine 35
Station 36: Engine 36
Station 37: Engine 37, Rescue 37 (26RES to Stn.37)
Station 38: Engine 38
Station 39: Engine 39, Hazmat 39, DC6, IV02
Station 40: Engine 40, Ladder 40 (34LA to Stn.40)
Station 41: Engine 41
Station 42: Engine 42
Station 43: Engine 43
Station 44: Engine 44
Station 45: Engine 45

The moves to note would be:
-TRT to 16 and 17 to avoid getting sucked downtown
-R8 to 20 to be the "downtown" rescue and be midway between 10 and 11
-Move a Tower to 8 so it can start running downtown more
-Ladder to 28, which kicks 34 Ladder to 40, as 40 should have a secondary unit anyways
-Tower goes to 18 to cover the mid NW and also can run in with either 12 or 32 for fires on the east side
-HM and HR go to 10 together, good NW/SW access and also close to downtown if needed
-Send a Ladder to 14 to mimimize L1s district, also frees up a second engine to be at 11
-Recovery goes to 4. The HM responds to grab it anyways, might as well put it in the hall. Plus, it could also cross with R4 and then have a full HM response at 4 if needed
-Put a Rescue at 30, better to cross than a Ladder, then move the Ladder to 26 to still cover the SW and make up for 19L going North
-Also stick a Rescue at 37 so it can run the ring road for MVCs, and can split the district with R20 (Keep the TRT on the east side)
-Air Light 4 to 23. If the HR goes to 10, no reason to have two Rehabs on B13 (And 16th ave) if the AL goes to 23, its further South so it covers C13 east better (10 isn't terrible access to districts like 29, 33, 20, 8, 11 etc.) Being at 23 its still in the east side "fire zone" so its quick into 12/4/22s district when they get fires. Its also close-ish to the east/south-east part of downtown, so it can still get into downtown quick if the HR is tied up

 

[ENGINE_4]

move HRS 2 to 10

From what I understand, the high rise is essentially a manpower, Rehab Unit. Basically an On Scene Support Unit. From 10 they could cover the NW and SW, and a short run into the core if they are needed for a “high rise” job.

Funny thing, HRS used to be at 10!

Is 10 big enough to house 9 to 11 firefighters though? they will have to expand the parking lot lol

@Calgary_Fire_Filmer, I love the run down and thought process! I'll have to think about this. You're not accounting for the 2-4 new Ladders coming on-line, but lets face it - they probably won't be in service until mid-late summer. Are you moving Rescue 23 to 4?

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

Funny thing, HRS used to be at 10!

Is 10 big enough to house 9 to 11 firefighters though? they will have to expand the parking lot lol

@Calgary_Fire_Filmer, I love the run down and thought process! I'll have to think about this. You're not accounting for the 2-4 new Ladders coming on-line, but lets face it - they probably won't be in service until mid-late summer. Are you moving Rescue 23 to 4?

Yes, I really look forward to the new Ladders and Engines coming. I know we have a Pierce stick coming soon, so I factored that in, but further then that I wanted to stay true to what the CFD has to offer right now.

And Rescue 23/Air Light 4 would swap.

 

[255-Jacobs]

Air Light 4 was Air Light 23 at point. Just sending units back to where they came from 😂

 

[RP201]

I really like that run down Mr. CFF, it makes sense. Since the HR runs as an Air Light, moving it further west and the other A/L back into the south east is a better use of resources.

Two engines at 11 surrounds the core nicely.

 

[ENGINE_4]

This is my thoughts if all Ladders/Rescues and 25 Tender had full staff. Keep in mind with this staffing, it brings down the cities ERF (Effective Response Force) 12 FF's on scene in 10 minutes response time, one of the main reasons for my thoughts behind this apparatus move without the additional units coming on-line soonishh. Is this pretty? NO. This is NOT perfect, these are just my thoughts and given the strain on Ladders, only 3 Hazmat units and no data of actual call volume for units/stations I think it's half decent

Station 1: Engine 1, Engine 301, Ladder 1, MRU 1
Station 2: Engine 2, Engine 302, Highrise 2, MRU 2
Station 4: Engine 4, Rescue 4, (Rescue 23 to Stn. 4)
Station 5: Engine 5, DC2, IV1
Station 6: Engine 6, Ladder 6, Aquatic Rescue 6, Boat Tow 6, Jet Boat 6
Station 7: Engine 7 & Volterra, FRP7, ATV7
Station 8: Engine 8, Tower Ladder 8, Bush Buggy 8 (19TW to Stn.8)
Station 9: Engine 9, Hazmat 9, Recovery 9, IV3 (39HM / 16 REC to Stn.9)
Station 10: Engine 10, Hazmat 10 (17HM to Stn.10)
Station 11: Engine 11, Ladder 11 (19LA to Stn.11)
Station 12: Engine 12, Engine 312, Ladder 12, Bush Buggy 12 (23BB to Stn.12)
Station 14: Engine 14, Engine 314
Station 15: Engine 15
Station 16: Engine 16, Technical Rescue 16, Technical Support 16, Panel 16, DC1, Battalion Chief, FAN 16, GEN 01 (11TRT to Stn.16)
Fire Headquarters: POD 01, POD 02, Mobile Command, HazTech 01, HazTech 03, Hazmat Support 02, POD: HM/TRT/FLD/DEC/RHB/125
Station 17: Engine 17, Technical Rescue 17, Technical Support 17 (10TRT to Stn.17)
Station 18: Engine 18, Tower Ladder 18, Bush Buggy 18, Generator 02 (31TW, 31BB, 02Gen to Stn.18)
Station 19: Engine 19
Station 20: Engine 20, Rescue 20, FRP20, ATV20, (8RES to Stn.20)
Station 21: Engine 21, Ladder 21, Boat Tow 21, Jet Boat 21, DC4 (17LA to 21)
Station 22: Engine 22, Engine 322
Station 23: Engine 23, Air Light 23 (04AL to Stn.23)
Station 24: Engine 24, DC3 (20DC to Stn.24)
Station 25: Engine 25, Tender 25
Station 26: Engine 26, Ladder 26, Bush Buggy 26 (19BB / 30LA to Stn.26)
Station 27: Engine 27, Hazmat 27 (4 HAZ to Stn.27)
Station 28: Engine 28
Station 29: Engine 29
Station 30: Engine 30, Rescue 30, Boat Tow 30, Jet Boat 30 (39RES to Stn.30)
Station 31: Engine 31, Rescue 31 (27RES to Stn.31)
Station 32: Engine 32, Ladder 32, DC5
Station 33: Engine 33, Tender 33 (21 TEN to Stn.33)
Station 34: Engine 34, Rescue 34
Station 35: Engine 35
Station 36: Engine 36
Station 37: Engine 37, Rescue 37 (26RES to Stn.37)
Station 38: Engine 38
Station 39: Engine 39, Tower Ladder 39, DC6, IV02 (25TWR to Stn.39)
Station 40: Engine 40, Ladder 40, Bush Buggy 40 (34LA / 17BB to Stn.40)
Station 41: Engine 41
Station 42: Engine 42
Station 43: Engine 43
Station 44: Engine 44
Station 45: Engine 45

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

I think its a neat idea to move a HM to 9, keeps it a little more North. And I love that HM10 and TW8 are sticking. Seem like good spots for them. The Tender moves are interesting, and 33 is a pretty good spot location wise (Especially Weasle and Stoney. Plus not bad runs to Fish Creek. I'd hate to get stuck as an FF on 25 or 33 though, fully staffed Tender at halls like that, I wouldn't be doing many (Or any non-firewatch) runs a shift.

Having a Ladder go to 21 is a really good idea, pretty good spot for it too. Would just suck to have another Ladder booked down all summer, when BT21 is out on the river.

HM4 to 27 is super interesting, and I'd love to hear why you'd chose that spot. 4 is of course the Hazmat hall, and HM4 runs most of its calls (legitamite, not tailing ponds CO/NG leak calls) right in 4/12/22s district. Moving it to 27 seems like its getting moved further away from the action it will still be going to. (Maybe 9 could be the new HM hall if they have the HM Rec too).

All in all, neat rundown!

 

[RP201]

I love all these rig run downs and different points of view! I have a few thoughts… despite arguments on the location of a high rise unit, and its capacity to operate as a rehab or substitute air light, maybe CFD should consider a second A/L. Perhaps a future HRS should be just that.

I think a smaller single axle Rescue style body equipped (similar to Toronto Fires HR units). Staff it with four firefighters and run it out of station 2, where all the high rise buildings are. The city of Toronto is a good comparison to Calgary, both with dense downtown areas and sprawling suburbs.
The A/Ls again could be similar to Vancouver's A/L or Toronto's units. Personally, I think the current HRS is an innovative design, however it is really big and the whole huge compressor on scene is no longer a recommended tactic due to smoke conditions.

So, run an A/L out of 10 and 23, staffed with two firefighters each and a High Rise with a crew of four out of 2 and run it as a “special unit” on the run card. If the underground section of the green line is somehow restored, then the HRS could be used for underground operations.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I think its a neat idea to move a HM to 9, keeps it a little more North. And I love that HM10 and TW8 are sticking. Seem like good spots for them. The Tender moves are interesting, and 33 is a pretty good spot location wise (Especially Weasle and Stoney. Plus not bad runs to Fish Creek. I'd hate to get stuck as an FF on 25 or 33 though, fully staffed Tender at halls like that, I wouldn't be doing many (Or any non-firewatch) runs a shift.

HM4 to 27 is super interesting, and I'd love to hear why you'd chose that spot. 4 is of course the Hazmat hall, and HM4 runs most of its calls (legitamite, not tailing ponds CO/NG leak calls) right in 4/12/22s district. Moving it to 27 seems like its getting moved further away from the action it will still be going to. (Maybe 9 could be the new HM hall if they have the HM Rec too).

All in all, neat rundown!

I mean Tender 21 is used for medicals, minor MVC's, alarm calls, fire watch, etc.. They would just be doing more of that. If they had smaller Bush Buggy type trucks to respond, I think that would be even better but CFD isn't there and might not ever be there :/

For the Hazmat's, like I said I don't have any call volume/response mapping data (wish I did) but my thoughts were to spread the Hazmat's out more and to stations that have easier access to major roadways, etc.. Hazmat at 4 is perfect, but also down the road from 10. I figured why not have a Hazmat north, south and west of the fiery east side and try to spread out apparatus. We'll see what CFD does in the coming months

Seems like the shops are struggling to keep units in service/repaired right now. New trucks cant come fast enough

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

I love all these rig run downs and different points of view! I have a few thoughts… despite arguments on the location of a high rise unit, and its capacity to operate as a rehab or substitute air light, maybe CFD should consider a second A/L. Perhaps a future HRS should be just that.

I think a smaller single axle Rescue style body equipped (similar to Toronto Fires HR units). Staff it with four firefighters and run it out of station 2, where all the high rise buildings are. The city of Toronto is a good comparison to Calgary, both with dense downtown areas and sprawling suburbs.
The A/Ls again could be similar to Vancouver's A/L or Toronto's units. Personally, I think the current HRS is an innovative design, however it is really big and the whole huge compressor on scene is no longer a recommended tactic due to smoke conditions.

So, run an A/L out of 10 and 23, staffed with two firefighters each and a High Rise with a crew of four out of 2 and run it as a “special unit” on the run card. If the underground section of the green line is somehow restored, then the HRS could be used for underground operations.

That is my big thought. Have two identical, smaller, Air Light units that are filled with SCBA bottles. No need for those huge high rise carts that are in the back of HR2. The truck is so large, to only have a very small part actually get used. If there is a need for those high rise carts, then maybe stick em in a POD at 16, that way you have them for that 1 in a million call that requires them.