CFD TRAINING FIRE

[Colin9690]

Was anyone in Columbus on 11-7-04 when there was an extremely large fire? The thing was it wasnt assigned a Battalion talkgroup. I found it on 9 ACADEMY. Was this a training fire? I heard the chief say they found 11 code ones. (dead people). And i didn't hear anything about it on the morning news. Did anyone else listen to this?

Colin

 

[mdulrich]

I think you answered your own question. 9 ACADEMY, 11 dead, and nothing on the news.

Mike

 

[rdale]

I agree - a conspiracy by the Bush team to keep a multi-fatality incident off the news just after the election... Good idea of them to put it on the training talkgroup!

 

[jpm]

cfd training

from my experience with the hobby of monitoring police scanners every incident isn't on the news or newspapers. Which has surprised me too but i just move on and not sulk about it not making the news.

 

[rdale]

Sorry to confuse you j - the Fire Academy is where they do training for firefighters. As such a training exercise would not be on the news, and since they operate on a training channel it should be obvious to most that it's not really happening.

If 11 people died in a fire, it would be on national news let alone local.

- Rob

 

[Colin9690]

the reason i thought it was real was because it sounded SOOO real. The Battalion chiefs were yelling to get crews in the basement and to cut a hole in the roof, the EMS coordinators were rushing medics to extract the "victims". It sounded very real.

Colin

 

[rdale]

That's how you do a drill - doesn't serve as much purpose if people are chatting it up when they are supposedly losing victims...

 

[Colin9690]

yeah you are right... :roll:

Colin

 

[rcvmo]

many moons ago, right in the middle of severe wx season, a local fd south of detroit decdied to do a test run of a signal 7-tornado warning and help in the evacuation of a mobile home park. The local news teams caught the signal 7 but missed the the " this is only a test." The entire city was surrounded by news crews and an official attempt of a live news cast from the scene. The Police chief had to ward off the newscasters.
Jimmy

 

[Colin9690]

lol. big mistake! Delaware County just north of here does tests for random fire stations every hour.

Colin

 

[FPO703]

That's why there should be a SOP in place where the people taking place in the incident (training) and the 'dispatcher' should all say "This is a test" or something to that effect on ALL radio traffic.

 

[rdale]

That's be impossible... Considering you can have 5-10 transmissions per minute, you'd take away from the realism. It was on a training channel - I think it should be obvious that it was a training event.

 

[FPO703]

Not impossibble. just laziness on the behalf of those involved. I've heard this in use at military installations, power plants, and other fire department exercises.

I believe it's SOP for military to say it so if the news media or anyone else that may be listening doesn't think it's an actual incident and report it all over the news.

It just makes common sense.

Ask your local chief(s) how many of them have an SOP in place for training exercises. Especially large scale incidents where there are multiple agencies in place.

 

[rdale]

"if the news media or anyone else that may be listening doesn't think it's an actual incident and report it all over the news."

It's illegal to report things on the news strictly from scanners... People lose jobs over incidents like that.

"Especially large scale incidents where there are multiple agencies in place."

I've been involved in two very large training exercises in the past year, and that announcement was made periodically but certainly not even close to every transmission. And the media was included anyways - you cannot perform a full-scale exercise without them!

 

[FPO703]

It's illegal to report things on the news strictly from scanners... People lose jobs over incidents like that.

How do you think the news media operates?

99% of their information is from scanners.

 

[INDY72]

It would only be illegal if they siad: "This just in from a SCANNER" They get the info basics from a scanner, then attempt to confirm with live intel, or phone conversations before going OTA. You will never hear: "This just came over the scanner" You wonder how they get on scene seemingly before an incident is over, or during an incident... they hear it on scanners, then rush to get live intel. And about announcing its a drill every minute.. get real.. the actual agencies only need the initial tone out/ call always included is the this is a drill, or they already announced thier will be a drill. Newsies alwys attempt to confirm everything, they will call the HQ and ask about it, or have a reporter talk to Chiefs/Officers on scene. The media learned after the big Martian Invasion LOL!

 

[rdale]

"How do you think the news media operates? 99% of their information is from scanners."

Since I'm part of the news media I'll tell you that our information comes from the scanner (I call in plenty of stuff even when away) but NOTHING goes over the air unless it's been confirmed via the agency or we have someone onscene, just as milf pointed out. I repeat that it is illegal to divulge information received solely from a scanner, be it you or CBS.

 

[JoeyC]

"NOTHING goes over the air unless it's been confirmed via the agency or we have someone onscene, just as milf pointed out. I repeat that it is illegal to divulge information received solely from a scanner, be it you or CBS.

Exactly! Anyone who has ever monitored an incident in progress that was carried LIVE on the TV news knows that. You may hear the conclusion to the event on the scanner MANY minutes earlier than the station will report it. Knowing that they are listening to the same thing on the scanner that you are, it is obvious that some confirmation has to take place before the info is divulged. Even when every station in town is on the story and they all want to be the first to break the latest.

 

[BoxAlarm187]

Not impossibble. just laziness on the behalf of those involved.

As one of the training officers for our large (450 personnel, 20 stations) career FD, I have to chime in on this one. We have daily training sessions that occur on the company level, and we often have multi-company drills that use several tacs. How are we supposed to to have a realistic training session if it goes like this?

Roof Sector:"Roof sector to command, we've vented the roof, do you have another assignment? This is only a drill"
Command: "Roof sector, come down and assist Truck 22 with primary search. This is only a drill".
Roof Sector: "Roof sector copies, assist Truck 22 with the primary search. This is only a drill"

Also, when we have a recruit academy in session, we live by the saying "For in times of crisis, you will revert to your training." Why would I want to risk training a recruit to say that it's a drill if it's not what we do out in the real world?

I really have to agree with RDale on this one. Let's take the chance on the media reporting what they're hearing on the radio without verifying the info - THEY'LL be the ones with explaining to do, not the fire department!

Also related to this, our department was DIRECTLY involved with a major military exercise several months ago. We used six of our seldom-used tac's for the traffic. Using very realisitic radio traffic, we simulated mass-casualties for both civilians and public safety officials (numbering in the hundreds), and the military did NOT require us to indicate that is was only a training exercise.