Chandler PD on RWC TRS?

[tomfassett]

I know there is at least one other person having trouble with this and am wondering if anyone knows what is going on.
I loaded the most recent version of the RWC trunking database for the Phoenix area into my scanner and everything works but Chandler PD and Scottsdale PD. I isolated these two groups in their own "bank" last night and monitored for two hours. Not one transmission came through (which is impossible to believe on a Saturday night if the settings were correct). The alpha tags list Chandler and Scottsdale but there is no activity on those talk groups (or there is an incorrect setting). Does anyone else have this problem? If not and you are listenning to Chandler PD I would appreciate knowing what is different between my scanner settings and yours.

Thanks,
Tom F

 

[tomfassett]

I made a mistake--Scottsdale comes through, Tempe does not.

Tom F

 

[tomfassett]

OK, Tempe does come through, the alpha tags in the downloaded database do not say Tempe (TMP) like the web page for the database does. So now the only thing I cannot get is Chandler PD, and I am in Chandler. IN 3 days the scanner has not logged a single hit on any Chandler PD talkgroup.
I know Chandler has not fallen off the map because I looked around while running errands today and I could not see anything missing. There was a blue patch near the Tempe border that said, "Here be Dragons." Those of us in Chandler know what happens if you sail to close to Tempe... ;- )

Tom F

 

[tomfassett]

I found a really cool document on the Chandler Police Department website with information on their radio system (with the pertinent trunking information) and how to monitor traffic with a scanner. Their info mirrors what is listed on this site. Since I am not an expert on the trunking settings, can someone tell me if something is different? I tell ya', something has changed or there is an error in the database (or my scanners are possessed).

Here is the Chandler PD website (and good for them for being so "transparent")

http://chandlerpd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/RWC-Scanner-Information-Document_06062011rtp.pdf


Tom F

 

[MORSEMAN]

RWC reception

I don’t know if this will help you and I don’t want to repeat things you may already know but this is how I have Chandler, Tempe, and Scottsdale set up and I receive them all from my home in South Tempe on both PSR 800 and PSR 500/600.
The RWC is difficult to monitor with the multiple sites so I break it down this way.
In the PSR 800 I create a separate TSYS for each using only the most relevant site.
For instance Chandler is only on Site C so it is set up to only use the Site C control channels and the non encrypted Talk Groups.
Tempe is only on Site F.
For Scottsdale I have found them on Site H and F. At my location Site H is pretty spotty but I get a lot of their traffic on Site F.
For Phoenix I have 3 TSYS set up. One using only Site C, one using Sites C and A and another using all of the Sites. It seems that from my location I get more traffic on the first 2 TSYS than on the one using all of the Sites.
For the PSR 500/600 I have noticed that in setting up each TSYS I can enter all of the control channels but it works better if I enter them so that the most likely Sites to be received in my area are entered at the top of the list. So when I set up Phoenix PD I put Site C first followed by Site A and then the rest. For Chandler I only use Site C and for Tempe only Site F. For Scottsdale it is Site F and then H.
I can only guess that this is due to some characteristic in how each type of scanner looks at the control channels on each pass.
I do know that when I first got the PSR 800 I entered the entire RWC and it was pretty much deaf to Tempe and Chandler until I made the correction that I described.
The PSR 800 software makes it a little difficult to customize the TSYS in this way and the only way I have found to do it is to make a TSYS with the entire RWC and then on the Trunked Radio Systems tab highlight the TSYS and then use the duplicate feature to create an additional TSYS which you can then delete everything except that which you wish to keep. You can create all of the separate TSYS that I described in this fashion. It is ponderous but it works.
Of course this is still very dependant upon your location and both scanner types are still very subject to the usual drop outs and garbled transmissions typical of these low end radios.
The problem you described with the Alpha tags showing up with no transmission I believe is when the scanner is not able to decode the voice part but is able to decode the tags. This can be due to a variety of reasons but is especially location dependant.
I hope this helps.

 

[cellphone]

Chandler talkgroups are only carried on the Simulcast C site. Be sure that your scanner is scanning the "Simulcast C" site when scanner Chandler talkgroups. Likewise, Tempe talkgroups are primarily carried on "Simulcast F" Site and Scottsdale talkgroups are primarily carried on the "Simulcast H" site.

Info in the DB is accurate.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

If you can adjust your Threshold High and Low settings, set it to 99 (High) and around 90 (Low). If your High is less than 99 and the signal strength is greater, your scanner may be ignoring the signal because it's too strong.

 

[tomfassett]

All good information. I have not dedicated the Chandler PD to one site. I will have to re-read that and see if I can digest it enough to attempt it... ;- )

I know it is not a reception issue as I can receive Glendale, West Phoenix and Peoria without much trouble as I have a scannerbeam antenna on the roof (about 30 feet in the air). Scottsdale, Mesa, MCSO, Gilbert and Tempe come blasting through. When I use the 800MHz rubber ducky antenna inside I still get Mesa, Gilbert, Scottsdale and Tempe but not as much Glendale or Peoria.

Right now the thresholds for all trunk systems is set at High = 95 and low = 75.

Quick question--the RR download database has the old Chandler MOT800/900 trunk system included (which is no longer operative and I have locked out and plan to delete). Would it be easier to change the settings on this and add the new freqs and talkgroups to that or go with the suggestion of installing everything and deleting the unwanted channels multiple times? Bear in mind, before this, the last real experience I had programming trunk systems was when the Motorola systems were new...

Tom F

 

[JoeyC]

You do not say what scanner you have and trying to hear Chandler PD which people say are only on the C site will be hit or miss if you are listening to the RWC on a scanner that is multi-site tracking. Do yourself a favor and turn off the multisite and program each Simulcast site as a separate entity. Once you have an -isolated from the rest- Simulcast C system you will hear Chandler PD talkgroups with less issues.

 

[tomfassett]

You do not say what scanner you have...

Sorry, I assumed everyone could look at my desk and see that I am using a PRO106... ;- ) That's the problem with with discussing things in multiple threads--I gave the scanner type elsewhere and not here. Obviously that does matter.
The scanner is set up for multi site tracking on all the RWC trunks--I am getting the idea that this is not the way to go since you all are in agreement on the issue.
I am going to try the "import everything and delete what you don't want" for each system tonight. I am pretty sure the software will allow me to copy and paste from the active downloaded database to the one saved on on the hard disk (after I open it). I'll see how that goes.

Thanks for all the good feedback,
Tom F

 

[tomfassett]

So, here's an update. I donwloaded the RWC database and selected Site 3 and Chandler PD only. I saved this as a stand alone database and uploaded just this to the scanner and now it works just fine (clear as a bell). I took KB7MIB's advice and set the lower threshold from 75 to 90 and this seemed to clear up some of the garbled transmissions. I am still getting some heavily garbled transmissions on A01 (sounds like encrypted audio). Still ,everything else is clear so I am not worried about it.
Now I just need to see if I can paste each service one at a time from one database to another.

Thanks again guys,
Tom F

 

[cellphone]

Hi Tom,

Glad you were able to make some progress to listen to Chandler PD.

I am still getting some heavily garbled transmissions on A01 (sounds like encrypted audio). Still ,everything else is clear so I am not worried about it.

"A01 Chandler PD - Info" is always encrypted. If I recall correctly the Pro-106 will not mute or skip encrypted talkgroups. You probably want to lock out or remove all the encrypted talkgroups from your programming.

 

[JoeyC]

Glad you got it working. If your PRO 106 resides on a desk, I wouldn't bother with ANY multisite tracking!

Multi site tracking is a great concept where all talkgroups are shared across each site, but when that is not the case, you are definately better off not using it, unless you just want to push SCAN and have something come through the speaker. It is a helpful when mobile and you are traveling through many areas but again, careful attention to the Hi/Lo threshold settings are important.

You can definately accomplish tracking all the agencies across all the sites you have mentioned aside from the fact you will probably get the dreaded simulcast nightmares common in the valley. Set each site up not to roam and give them separate scanlists.

FYI, your use of the word "database" above is confusing. I assume you are talking about V-Folders but myself, I wouldn't use separate v-folders for one metro area. You have 20 scanlists that you can separate services under, Happy scanning.

 

[tomfassett]

When I say "database" I mean all the frequencies stored in the scanner (whether programmed manually or uploaded from the software). I assign different groups and locations to the different scan lists as I drive around Arizona for work (wish there were more than 20). Currently I am not using the V folders.

One more nut to chew on.
After re-uploading the main database (saved in the software) to the scanner, I locked out the Chandler PD talkgroups assigned to the original RWC download (which has everything). I then downloaded just Chandler PD in a new trunked group using only simulcast site 3. No Chandler PD. I then assigned the new talkgroups to their own scan list. Still no Chandler PD. I turned off all other scan lists and left the scanner running on the Chandler scan list for 5 hours. Not one single hit. I made sure the setting were exactly the same from the "Chandler only" file I set up in the software and they were. I re-uploaded the Chandler only file to the scanner (over writing the memory) and a Chandler call came through in about 10 seconds. I then re-uploaded the whole enchilada (with the Chandler PD as its own separate trunk system object) and Chandler disappeared again.
The only thing I can think of is the scanner is still using the settings from the original RWC download instead of those I set up in the new trunk group object. The only thing I can think to do now is delete the entire original RWC trunk group and do as suggested--start from scratch (with the RWC group) and download each department as its own trunk group object. The scanner just seems to not like the original "all inclusive" download when it comes to Chandler and site 3 (all the other departments work just fine, as does the TOPAZ and ASU trunk groups).

Two more questions; I assume that B01 and C01 (both info channels) have the same issue as A01 as they sound encrypted as well.
Question 2; Shouldn't the downloaded database be the same as the "printed" one and have the alpha text show the channel name? All that is displayed in the talkgroups when downloading to the software is the channel number (like A01 or B02) and "Chandler PD" which is what the description field shows. The alpha tags do not show the same alpha fields that the web page does (like "CPD-Hot" or CPD-Event 1"). I'm new to the database section of the RR website so am not sure what the standards are.

Tom F

 

[JoeyC]

post your programming file here.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

I like programming everything in by hand. Yes, it takes quite awhile to do, but I can pick and choose what/how I program my PSR-500, and it sounds like I would avoid this issue. I do have Chandler/Tempe/Scottsdale, with Simulcast C/F/H in one scan list...

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

...but due to my distance from those cities, which results in all but non-existent reception, I don't know if it works or not. And there aren't enough scan lists to break them down into individual cities with everything else I have programmed.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Eventually, I may split the West and East Valley into 2 seperate V-Folders, instead of trying to cram everything into one.

 

[tomfassett]

Interesting side note--I was working in Buckeye today (I-10 and Watson) and I was picking up Chandler PD on the hand held (same scanner I use at home) better than sitting at my desk in Chandler. I think I may need to try moving my roof antenna--I think one of the big trees is between me and site 3. Glendale was not coming in at all and I get them fine in Chandler. Maybe it's that big 2 story apartment complex they built just to the West of me. Might have to knock it down--I was here first... ;- )

Oh, and by the way, things seem to be working a lot better putting everything in its own trunk group instead of that big "all together" thing I had in the beginning. Thanks to all who mentioned it.

Tom F

 

[cmcgrail]

Is it possible a Chandler unit was roaming in that area also? I think I read somewhere that if a radio is in range of another site, the RWC is set up to carry the traffic over to that site. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.