Change Coming.

[jeepsandradios]

One site Simulcast, Phase 1 trunking. To my point. Too much jargon, that frankly is inaccurate.

Your not understanding this apparently. As GTR stated the Site is compromised of multiple Simulcast SubSites. Look at any regional systems such as CNY or the WNY systems. Catt County is a 10 site simulcast per the map. Each site carries the same traffic in a simulcast fashion using LSM.

Buffalo is indeed a Simulcast P25 C4FM system with 2 sites.

Edit: sorry hit submit same time as GTR....What he said is accurate.

 

[BITT211]

West Seneca Police going with uhf Saianet soon , watching for goverment grant to come in.

 

[Trbogeek]

Let's be clear here...both P25 Phase I (FDMA) and Phase II (TDMA) trunking can be simulcast, and quite often are. Nothing unusual about P25 simulcast cells, they are extremely common these days.

I agree, and corrected myself, with explanation.


I'm not sure what you consider inaccurate here. When you say "one site simulcast", yes...it's one virtual site. A simulcast cell is considered a single site in the P25 system controller, as all physical sites that make up the simulcast cell (known as subsites) are all operating on the same set of frequencies. It's not one single site, which is what it seems you're implying. Take a look at the mapping of the simulcast cell for any of the nearby counties, and you'll quickly see that the "one site" is really quite a few that make up the one simulcast cell/site.

It's the jargon, semanticists, that gets in the way. A single simulcast site doesn't exist. A "virtual" site really would be a simulcast system. I'm extreamly familiar with all of the above listed formats, and understand the differences, which is why Sites and systems, are used differently.

It is 100% accurate to list a P25 simulcast cell as a single site named "Simulcast", as that's precisely what it is. I'm not sure what the confusion is here. P25 simulcast trunking has been around for a long time, and before that Motorola SmartZone simulcasts were the very popular predecessor to P25 trunking.

A single site can be part of a simulcast system, but can't be single site simulcast. When talking P25 phase 1, It can be trunked, as well as simulcast, but those systems don't exist in this region. Phase 2 is the protocol, which also can be simulcast, as is the case in this region.

Anyway...off the rails as predicted. Agreed ....

 

[ak716]

The reason I was here at RR this past weekend is that I am contemplating the purchase of the SDS100 which I understand deals with these simulcasted systems much better, resulting in superior audio output of digital systems. But I am not sure that BPD or local public safety operates in the same context. I'm not sure an SDS100 in Buffalo, aside from what other benefits it may have, will actually "fix" the low quality diction I currently experience on my PRO-652.

I'll cut to the meat and potatoes of what you want. I have a BDC436HP. I have friends that have SDS100s and 325P2s. I used to have a Whistler 1080. I also have a friend who has an SDS200. For the sake of the argument, any of those will be fine. To say you need to have an SDS100 to monitor Buffalo PD, ECSO, Amherst, SaiaNet, and FM Comm's NXDN TRS is incorrect. There are presently no plans to build out a countywide P25 TRS, that I am aware of. It would take years to get one up and running too. So you should be set for years before you run into any "simulcast issues". I have run into zero issues getting anything in Erie County with it. Zero. When you start meandering out of the county, Niagara, Orleans, Genesee, Chautauqua, and Cattaraugus, you may start running into issues properly receiving and tracking those systems with a scanner. This is where that whole simulcast issue comes in. NYSTA is going to build out a P25 P2 TRS, but that is still years away from being operational, and I'm sure there will still be a way to listen to it off of that system when it becomes operational, SaiaNet comes to mind. To get your most "scanning pleasure", get the DMR and NXDN keys. No reason for ProVoice whatsoever.

 

[GTR8000]

@Trbogeek with all due respect, you're not making a lot of sense.

A single P25 system can contain multiple simulcast cells, all of which are considered a single "site" within the system. When I say "site", I'm referring to the Site ID within the system controller, not a single physical site out in the real world.

Phase I and Phase II is the distinction between P25 FDMA and TDMA, not whether it can be simulcast or not. The P25 trunked systems in CNY/WNY are all comprised of at least one simulcast cell or "Site", with some having multiple simulcast cells/sites such as Monroe/Ontario. Some are Phase I FDMA modulation, others are Phase II TDMA modulation. I'm lost where you're saying "but those systems don't exist in this region" when they very clearly do. Niagara County is a Phase I FDMA system that has a simulcast cell.

 

[k2hz]

I'll cut to the meat and potatoes of what you want. I have a BDC436HP. I have friends that have SDS100s and 325P2s. I used to have a Whistler 1080. I also have a friend who has an SDS200. For the sake of the argument, any of those will be fine. To say you need to have an SDS100 to monitor Buffalo PD, ECSO, Amherst, SaiaNet, and FM Comm's NXDN TRS is incorrect. There are presently no plans to build out a countywide P25 TRS, that I am aware of. It would take years to get one up and running too. So you should be set for years before you run into any "simulcast issues". I have run into zero issues getting anything in Erie County with it. Zero. When you start meandering out of the county, Niagara, Orleans, Genesee, Chautauqua, and Cattaraugus, you may start running into issues properly receiving and tracking those systems with a scanner. This is where that whole simulcast issue comes in. NYSTA is going to build out a P25 P2 TRS, but that is still years away from being operational, and I'm sure there will still be a way to listen to it off of that system when it becomes operational, SaiaNet comes to mind. To get your most "scanning pleasure", get the DMR and NXDN keys. No reason for ProVoice whatsoever.

I agree with Andy and my experience is the 436/536 is far superior to the 100/200 for everything except local P25 simulcast. For NXDN, DMR and non-simulcast P25 the 436 next to my SDS100 gets perfect reception on systems that are either unheard or cutting in and out due to desense and poor selectivity of the SDS100. I started by upgrading from a TRX-1 to the SDS100 for P25 simulcast and found I had lost a lot of capability for other monitoring so I had to get the 436.

If you do get a SDS scanner you still may have difficulty with reception of the adjacent county P25 systems. See the recent discussions about issues with monitoring Cattaraugus from the Buffalo area. If you really need reliable P25 simulcast monitoring of adjacent counties, get a Unication.

 

[Disp46]

West Seneca Police going with uhf Saianet soon , watching for goverment grant to come in.

Not sure what government grant will pay for a Mototrbo System. All grants for public safety communications require P25 capabilities these days and have for quite a few years. They can run in analog mode but they must be P25 capable and I don’t know of any communications grants that will pay for DMR operations.

 

[Trbogeek]

Not sure what government grant will pay for a Mototrbo System. All grants for public safety communications require P25 capabilities these days and have for quite a few years. They can run in analog mode but they must be P25 capable and I don’t know of any communications grants that will pay for DMR operations.

And yet, it's happening…

 

[IFRIED91]

I was wondering? is Saia the name of the dealer which put this system together?

 

[Trbogeek]

I was wondering? is Saia the name of the dealer which put this system together?

Yes, Saia Communications

 

[tdave365]

I'll cut to the meat and potatoes of what you want. I have a BDC436HP.

To cap off this sub-thread of the larger thread, I went with the SDS200. I was moved by your observation that diction (reception) might be better on the BDC436HP, but I kept thinking that I'd rather have the agility to find myself in a simulcast area. At my age and at the prices of these scanners nowadays, we can safely assume that this will be my "last scanner" - if you know what I mean. I want this one for the long haul. If it's fine on the SDS line that's fine enough for me. Too, it seems like the SDS line is better with network integration. For example, later I may start up a YT feed similar to Niagra scanner, and the SDS200 seems to have everything it needs for that.

Thank you for your excellent insight, it really help put the complexity into a better perspective.