The best advice I have for the new system is. Turn off the encryption temporarily. Let a few outsiders like us monitor the system and see what we can advise for fixing or improving it. There are a lot of qualified people here who have a lot of experience. Using the line of we are encrypted for officer safety is BS at this stage. The system is not working and that is clearly more of a risk to safety than someone saying something over the air that would compromise safety.
Chatham-Kent switch to P25
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Diddley
Member
I say turn off encryption, PERIOD. Why on earth they decided to encrypt fire in the FIRST PLACE is a great mystery to me, especially since everything remains in the clear over the repeaters. Even the police transmissions can still be heard over the repeater if a cruiser happens to be in the immediate vicinity...
What they're using now -- right down to the radio units themselves (which are ALL osbolete as it is) -- is nothing short of laughable. It's my understanding that this new system WILL NOT work correctly unless they rip out all those all ancient radios and install all brand new equipment--something the city doesn't have the budget for. You don't wanna hear what some of those firefighters have said regarding this new system. I have to keep it clean. LOL.
What they're using now -- right down to the radio units themselves (which are ALL osbolete as it is) -- is nothing short of laughable. It's my understanding that this new system WILL NOT work correctly unless they rip out all those all ancient radios and install all brand new equipment--something the city doesn't have the budget for. You don't wanna hear what some of those firefighters have said regarding this new system. I have to keep it clean. LOL.
Question, if the radio system is so poor why aren’t the Police and Fire Associations putting in Health and Safety complaints? Is it going to come down to someone getting seriously hurt or even worse a workplace death to correct this matter?
Diddley
Member
Perhaps Muxlow can fill you in here. He knows what kind of pathetic agency is running this system, as well as the ancient radios many are still relying on. FWIW, CKPS received all new handhelds two years ago, yet even some of those units have gone 'bad' already from what a little birdie told me...
We do not want to start a "whose fault is it" thread. Our primary interest is to have a properly functioning system for the agencies. Encrypted or not, if it does not work then its a matter of time before Gymbags prediction comes true.
Diddley : All LE want encryption because they have been sold the bag of beans that all their security issues will go away. Its is true a lot of those issues do go away but in achieving it they loose out on the communities good will and open co-operation. Too high a price for my liking. Maybe just maybe they will see what community support can achieve and as you hope keep encryption off or just use it for high priority and surveillance calls. I doubt it, but preventing even one injury is worth fixing the system regardless of encrypted or not.
Diddley : All LE want encryption because they have been sold the bag of beans that all their security issues will go away. Its is true a lot of those issues do go away but in achieving it they loose out on the communities good will and open co-operation. Too high a price for my liking. Maybe just maybe they will see what community support can achieve and as you hope keep encryption off or just use it for high priority and surveillance calls. I doubt it, but preventing even one injury is worth fixing the system regardless of encrypted or not.
And latest word now is that CKPS won't be assuming control over policing in Leamington after all, which as I understand it, was one of the primary reasons they migrated over to P25 IN THE FIRST PLACE.
You seriously can't make this crap up...
Chatham-Kent out of running to provide policing services to Leamington
Leamington council has a tough decision to make when it comes to selecting a police service, but that choice won't include Chatham-Kent's department.www.chathamdailynews.ca
Umm... they migrated to P25 because EDACS went End of Life/No longer supported in 2017. You can only maintain that old hardware for so long...
Muxlow
Super Secret
All I can say is.. Thames should have tested the system like every other real communication provider rather then get the system online and then dump everyone over to it and hope it works.
Issues Fire had on EDACS are still here, few weeks ago fire on scene of a 3 alarm fire and the truck repeater locked up and they had no communications for 4 mins
Last week another radio was transmitting an annoying sound for a good 10 mins in total (This would happen on EDACS often also)
Bunch of trucks have gone back to the shop for radio service already.. Stations getting tones but no voice, or trucks responding cant talk to each other. PD side is just as bad. Always great when you have to use your cell phone because your radio is having issues
The list is endless. C-K use to deal with Thames to up fit their police cars but lots of issues with that too.. so now they send them all the way down to Darta to get built. Think C-K needs to look into a new communication provider. Back when Lambton Fire was on Thames EDACS system out that way they had a million issues also and they were never fixed.
I've heard a couple higher ups in the Fire Dept are pushing to get rid of the encryption. Firefighters can't listen to calls any more when their Mutual Aid Dept gets called out for something, so they can listen in and see if they should start making their way to the fire hall or not. Seems lots of complaints. I'm sure nothing will change though. In the eyes of Thames.. they got paid and the system "works" more often then it doesn't so no problem
Issues Fire had on EDACS are still here, few weeks ago fire on scene of a 3 alarm fire and the truck repeater locked up and they had no communications for 4 mins
Last week another radio was transmitting an annoying sound for a good 10 mins in total (This would happen on EDACS often also)
Bunch of trucks have gone back to the shop for radio service already.. Stations getting tones but no voice, or trucks responding cant talk to each other. PD side is just as bad. Always great when you have to use your cell phone because your radio is having issues
The list is endless. C-K use to deal with Thames to up fit their police cars but lots of issues with that too.. so now they send them all the way down to Darta to get built. Think C-K needs to look into a new communication provider. Back when Lambton Fire was on Thames EDACS system out that way they had a million issues also and they were never fixed.
I've heard a couple higher ups in the Fire Dept are pushing to get rid of the encryption. Firefighters can't listen to calls any more when their Mutual Aid Dept gets called out for something, so they can listen in and see if they should start making their way to the fire hall or not. Seems lots of complaints. I'm sure nothing will change though. In the eyes of Thames.. they got paid and the system "works" more often then it doesn't so no problem
Thanks Muxlow, that is exactly one of the down sides to full time encryption I was referring to. Not only do you lose the public's interaction (extra eyes type thing) but you also lock out your own resources. I personally know quite a few fire personnel and almost to a 'man' they all are active in being aware of what calls are happening off shift and what calls are active in surrounding locals. This is especially true in smaller and volunteer depts.
Muxlow
Super Secret
Yepper.. Kinda blocked their own guys out.
I remember when Kitchener just switched over I was talking to a traffic cop and he said it really sucks the public can't hear them now. Said they would put out a BOLO for a drunk driver or missing person or whatever it may be and they would get a bunch of calls about it saying they just saw that drunk driver or suspect they were looking for. Really helped solve things quick.. now they will just have to rely on their own team to help them out.
We will be loosing the capability to monitor Sarnia Fire soon too.. Going P25 ENC. They started off encrypted when they first went over to DMR but had issues so dropped it and never tried again, I guess.
Don't think C-K will get rid of it, it's in and "works" so Thames will just have to tweak things until it works for real
Guess the ol' M7100 mobiles in the Police and Fire trucks and Jaguar P7100's and P5400's for the cops portables aren't doing too well.
At least the Fire Chiefs have real radios. Nice, pretty dual band VHF 7/800MHz XL200's in the yellow case
I remember when Kitchener just switched over I was talking to a traffic cop and he said it really sucks the public can't hear them now. Said they would put out a BOLO for a drunk driver or missing person or whatever it may be and they would get a bunch of calls about it saying they just saw that drunk driver or suspect they were looking for. Really helped solve things quick.. now they will just have to rely on their own team to help them out.
We will be loosing the capability to monitor Sarnia Fire soon too.. Going P25 ENC. They started off encrypted when they first went over to DMR but had issues so dropped it and never tried again, I guess.
Don't think C-K will get rid of it, it's in and "works" so Thames will just have to tweak things until it works for real
Guess the ol' M7100 mobiles in the Police and Fire trucks and Jaguar P7100's and P5400's for the cops portables aren't doing too well.
At least the Fire Chiefs have real radios. Nice, pretty dual band VHF 7/800MHz XL200's in the yellow case
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