Chicago DEA

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Astro25

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Does anyone listen to the Chicago DEA repeaters on UHF much? Lately I've heard a lot of clicking, and beeps (like an RF link might be on battery power transmitting a status tone for that), and clicks similar to a satellite RX link opening and closing rapidly. It usually happens every 5 minutes or so, no reason or rhyme I can tell.

This is only on DEA F1, DEA F2 operates fine and doesn't have this problem.
 

texasemt13

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clicking

Clicking is a very good form of communications when an agency is concerned with countersurveillance. The DEA knows that people have access to frequency scanners, if for some reason they can't have encrypted communications they can find other ways to communicate. Imagine the DEA trying to perform a raid, in open radio modes, and the drug dealers listen to their everyword- know where the raid team is going to hit- and they flush all their contraband down the toilet. If the DEA can keep radio silence from the disembark point until the raid house then no one nows where they're going to hit, once on scene they can use hand signals as visual communications or "clicks" (which would simply be keying the PTT button instead of speaking in to the radio face). These clicks can be predetermined commands or used as answers to questions (one click for yes, two for no... etc.).

Could this be an explanation for the clicking? More than likely if this is the cause the DEA in your area is dealing with some thorny fellas...
 

Astro25

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The clicks are systematic, not done by a person from what I can tell.

Their repeaters here pass DES/-XL and DES-OFB, so if their radios have those algos in it (which I would assume they do), then I don't see why they don't use that.
 
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ryangassxx

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Clicking is a very good form of communications when an agency is concerned with countersurveillance. The DEA knows that people have access to frequency scanners, if for some reason they can't have encrypted communications they can find other ways to communicate. Imagine the DEA trying to perform a raid, in open radio modes, and the drug dealers listen to their everyword- know where the raid team is going to hit- and they flush all their contraband down the toilet. If the DEA can keep radio silence from the disembark point until the raid house then no one nows where they're going to hit, once on scene they can use hand signals as visual communications or "clicks" (which would simply be keying the PTT button instead of speaking in to the radio face). These clicks can be predetermined commands or used as answers to questions (one click for yes, two for no... etc.).

Could this be an explanation for the clicking? More than likely if this is the cause the DEA in your area is dealing with some thorny fellas...
Or,..... not..
 

commstar

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Clicking is a very good form of communications when an agency is concerned with countersurveillance. The DEA knows that people have access to frequency scanners, if for some reason they can't have encrypted communications they can find other ways to communicate. Imagine the DEA trying to perform a raid, in open radio modes, and the drug dealers listen to their everyword- know where the raid team is going to hit- and they flush all their contraband down the toilet. If the DEA can keep radio silence from the disembark point until the raid house then no one nows where they're going to hit, once on scene they can use hand signals as visual communications or "clicks" (which would simply be keying the PTT button instead of speaking in to the radio face). These clicks can be predetermined commands or used as answers to questions (one click for yes, two for no... etc.).

Could this be an explanation for the clicking? More than likely if this is the cause the DEA in your area is dealing with some thorny fellas...
Wow, that is a great idea. Should have picked up on this one from that episode of Adam-12 where the patrol car went over the side of a cliff and the microphone was ripped from the dash and Martin Milner shorted two of the mic wires together to CW SOS for a rescue team.

Not to offend but where did you develop this information?

Seriously, NEVER ever never have I heard or heard of a search warrant venues location being announced over the air ahead of time. I have never,ever even heard of this happening- even by accident. SO they are not mic clicking at each other to avoid saying this. The DEA is for all intents and purposes IS the FBI and neither agency operates in this manner- I know that to be a fact in my area of practice.

'They' maintain radio silence mostly because there is really nothing to say. Everyone is already on the same page. The snakes travel time is useful to put yourself in the zone and triple check all your toys; The warrant is in hand, a tactical action plan has been drawn up , the service team assembled and briefed, the dispatchers/local agency have been faxed a copy pf the plan so when they get there all they have to say is "units are on scene" --when they get there.

There are 12 basic hand signals utilized by most teams. They are task oriented commands and not American sign language. They are not intended to write a novel....

As for using 'clicking' the radio as some type of OPSEC Counterintelligence technique- huh? Have you see this in practice somewhere? I would like to see the agencies policy on this. Two clicks for code-4, suspect in custody, three clicks for get me a large latte for the boss? If I was a thorny fellow holdlng a enough dope to get the DEA's attnetion and my scanner started clicking I would seriously start thinking about flushing or making alot of left turns.

Sorry, I could not let this one pass. Almost as sick as the two CB'ers that I heard 25 years ago talking about 'having water in their line' (coax). They decided that more wattage (linear) would cook off all the water in the form of steam. Ok, I would have like to have seen that theory in practice also. Never heard those guys again though.

If you know of an agency that is operating in this manner I am available for hire as a consultant. In the interim, the mic clicking is likely not from DEA agents communicating in some covert manner.
 
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Astro25

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Well I wouldn't 100% rule out clicking as a form of signaling - I've used it at work before (mostly as a discrete form of 10-4 or "ready"), but what I'm hearing sounds more like an RF link malfunction, more than anything else. It's too precise to be a person doing it.
 

commstar

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Ok, I have also thrown someone a mic click in the manner you describe but not "as a very good form of communication" that would supplant encryption.
 

texasemt13

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Not to offend but where did you develop this information?
I did not develop it. Sheesh, offer an educated remark and people slam you'cause they think it's stupid- ya'll have better things to do then insult my intelligence? If you have all this spare time read this book:

Surveillance Countermeasures: A Serious Guide to Detecting, Evading and Eluding Threats to Personal Privacy. Authored by ACM IV Security Services; Paladin Press, March 1994.

That is where I picked up the info.

Anyone else...?
 

texasemt13

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The DEA is for all intents and purposes IS the FBI and neither agency operates in this manner- I know that to be a fact in my area of practice.
I'll begin now. No, they aren't. They might share info and even take lunch together but they aren't, in fact, the same.
 

RADIOGUY2002

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Interseting, I know my pd key clicks their mic's to say 10-4 or hi when they pass each other, when their not mating if you will. But, they have mdc1200 so, it not all that discret. Plus, if they what to be more discret they use simplex. But, I now its not really closily tied to DEA or FBI obvisiouly just technique. I would safe that astro25 is identifing more of a piece of equipment attached ie: data modem, etc.
 

texasemt13

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There are 12 basic hand signals utilized by most teams. They are task oriented commands and not American sign language. They are not intended to write a novel....
Are you on most teams? I would venture to say that the most teams use 22 hand signals- these would be fire teams. United States Army FM 21-60....

But I could be wrong... evidently I was before and my educated opinion wasn't valid enough to grace the forum pages...
 

commstar

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I'll begin now. No, they aren't. They might share info and even take lunch together but they aren't, in fact, the same.
Before you continue with my reply, thank you for your service, there is no higher calling than public service. Thank you.

You are right, I yield to your immense background on the matter. The next time I hear a series of mic clicks I will think "Secret Code". NOT.

Note that I did not say the WERE the same, I said for all intents and purposes they are the same agency. Different assertion and I stand by that. They are both very fine organizations by the way.

The FBI & DEA do the same background investigation (themselves, with polygraph (uncommon in FEDLAND) and have the same background standards. DEA/FBI have co-located academy's (the only two agencies there besides the USMC by the way- not FLETC) at Quantico, share overall CONUS drug enforcement jurisdiction, and share much of the same policies and even computer systems and many forms (but renumbered). They are so much closer to being one than you apparently realize and it goes far beyond lunchcounter banter (which does not generally occur).

If one would do some additional research, you would find that they reason they are not all part of the FBI is because Hoover saw the drug problem under FBI jurisdiction as two things:

1- A war that could not be won. HGovver viewed the drug problem as one that likely could not be overcome.The FBI did/does not take on things that it cannot win- unless forced to take them on by the Seat of Government. As an illustration, This IS the reason the FBI (having forgotten Lincoln) lost interest in taking over POTUS protection from the USSS after Kennedy was assassinated. And there was in fact such a movement afoot prior to Kennedy.

2- As ethical problem within the FBI. Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity. Hoover demanded that his agents be lily white no lying, no drug use etc.- narcotics require a different sent of tactics and at times those involved in such investigations have to do things above and beyond the call to complete the task. Hoover felt these narcotics folks would eventually contaminate the FBI when they wanted to transfer out of the drug section. He also felt that the FBI might became a place to farm out burned out dope agents and it would be easier to manage/offload problems from within one branch of the agency than allowing it to spread throughout a larger organization.

As for the mic clicking and hand signal thing. No, I am not on most teams nor omni-present at all training given. I am aware of what is being taught generally in a way that you might not be. However, I know from experience that ARMY field manuals are not used in this type of training. Perhaps they are used in the land where folks mic click at each other in lieu of voice encryption-perhaps they are using them as training aides but I can assure you FM's are not considered standard training material and not generally inluded in any training curriculum I am aware of.

I can cite many reasons but the quickest one is that SRT/SWAT training is designed NOT to substantially resemble military training for purposes of civil litigation. Smart civil attorneys early on made that nexus and won a few cases so law enforcement got smart on this one. Many of the skills crossover but the the training is developed and disseminated on a different track.

You have cited Army Field manuals and Paladin Press publications, but you have not pointed toward one agency or even a fragment of written policy or training materiel published, used or endorsed by a named law enforcement agency on mic clicking "as a very good form of communication".

Come up with that and I will eat my hat.

I would not consider the sources you cite valid, empirical, or even cumulative sources of information on this subject matter at hand- these are not being taught to cops in the real world.

In closing, this has gone way off topic and no intent to hijack- therefore this is my last post on this one. No disrespect intended, but, I found your assertions so wildly theoretical and humorous that I felt compelled to perfect the record and challenge your assertions- I would really like to see some documentation on this not copyrighted by Paladin Press.

That said, I will refrain from applying the ketchup to my hat just yet. *Click,click*

Respectfully,
Mike
 
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texasemt13

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Could this be an explanation for the clicking?
That's all I asked. It was an axplanation. I didn't say it was THE explanation.

Next time you hear mic cliks don't think it is for this purpose- remember I'm wrong. It isn't for communication purposes at all... it's alien communications...

And yes, police do rely on military tactics these days. If they didn't why would they resemble the military so much? Why do our police need tanks, bomb robots, automatic weapons? You think they just learned to drive the LAV by flipping switches? You think that some para-police organizations haven't trained with military organizations? When my father, returned home from the FBI Academy he told me he felt like he just got out of the Marines (and he hates the Corps- he's an old AF MP- back when they were still MPs). He said he was instructed by everyone from retired military to college professors. He even went through MOUT training (instructed by some SF guys). He brought home a plethora of military training manuals he had "acquired." He still even uses these military manuals as good supplements to his law enforcement training manuals. Just because you don't know about certain events doesn't mean they dont occur.

It was just an explanation...

P.S. I knew they weren't the same agency- I can read a Hoover biography also. I know all about him and Anslinger...
 

commstar

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I bet you are sorry someone commented on your post (note I was not the only one).

When you get off the Paladin Press sponsored emotional waterslide and care to support your assertion with a single fact- I'll have my hat and ketchup ready. I have the water going to boil a crow. I am ready to retract- just show me the money.

I agree with my right honorable curtain dwelling friend: pay no attention to the humorous man in the golf cart ambulance who got his gold brick at Quantico by proxy (respect to your pops though).

Seriously, this is my final post until I get to cook up some crow.
 

texasemt13

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I bet you are sorry someone commented on your post (note I was not the only one).

When you get off the Paladin Press sponsored emotional waterslide and care to support your assertion with a single fact- I'll have my hat and ketchup ready. I have the water going to boil a crow. I am ready to retract- just show me the money.

I agree with my right honorable curtain dwelling friend: pay no attention to the humorous man in the golf cart ambulance who got his gold brick at Quantico by proxy (respect to your pops though).

Seriously, this is my final post until I get to cook up some crow.
Nope- figured someone would comment- this is a forum you know.

Did I plug a Paladin Press book? You asked where "I deleoped the info" and I told you. I did not ever assert that my answer was THE answer. You automatically boasted it was THE wrong answer. Show me where I said it was THE answer to the OP and I will retract the whole statement.

Next, you say you "thank me for my service" yet continue to belittle my comments and then follow up with:
"pay no attention to the man in the golf cart ambulance." Haha. What was it that you do? That's funny by the way- golf cart ambulance.

You say that I offer a reference then ask me to cite where these are used as references- Why? The OP asked for an explanation- I agve it. Cited MY source- why should I cite where others may have or may have not cited this? Am I the effin' Library of Congress?

Where do you get off on trying to say my OPINION isn't right? Did you offer a reasonable explanation? Show me your explanation. So if I don't like your opinions can I come and say they are WRONG? No it's frickin' OPINION.

Let's see if you can resist reposting. I'm out- for good.
 

immelmen

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a quick double click is a common, if non-standard, way of giving a quick affirmative reply over the AM air band between aircraft and controllers for non-clearance related transmissions such as traffic reports or other courtesy advisorys.
 

davidbond21

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Thats right texasemt13, I let you borrow one of my books and you go off quoting out it like it was your own(just kidding).

I've heard the click communications before used by my local county mounties. They shut down their primary channel and all you would hear is one click, or two clicks. Very good indicator that something is going down that like, texasemt13 said, would be compromised by open communication on unencrypted channels(which not all agencies have)

If you happen to know that the channel the click communications are taking place on is a mobile to mobile (or non-repeated frequency), you can turn your scanner's attenuation function on and if the clicks are still loud and clear, the action is taking place near your area. A good indicator of surveillance(or other covert activity), if you want to cite info from the countersurveillance book.
 

Astro25

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Since the original posting I made, the "clickings" are still present on DEA F1 (not sure what frequency it is, it's in a scan list on an Astro Spectra).

I'm just going to rule out that it's an RX site malfunctioning.
 
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