Chicago-why not StarCom21?

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sepura

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I just had a question:

With Chicago having a difficult time moving to their new digital system... why was the decision made to move a conventional P25 system over the already built digital state system? Just curious, thanks.
 

rdale

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State systems don't have the resources for an entire metro area. They would have to build a subsystem either way.
 

XTS3000

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State systems don't have the resources for an entire metro area. They would have to build a subsystem either way.

Yes, agreed!

Not to say their current analog 460.xxx conventional system is perfect, it WORKS.

I'm sure Chicago want to avoid what's happening just to their north in Milwaukee. Milwaukee open sky radios don't have a "PTT" button, but rather a "PAP" (Push And Pray).

Chicago's 477-478.xxx system is sitting idle due to all the red-tape, politics, corruption, etc. Moto built this system, but had to stop due to all the BS red-tape crap. Moto have given this unfinished system to Chicago, told them when they get their **** together and towers up, then they will finish the job.
 

sepura

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So, maybe this is too technical but may I ask why a state system couldn't handle all that traffic? Wouldn't they just have to add more towers and frequencies for that site?

Thanks.

(and sorry I am trying to learn more about trunking systems, as my county is moving from VHF to UHF trunking system soon)
 

n5ims

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So, maybe this is too technical but may I ask why a state system couldn't handle all that traffic? Wouldn't they just have to add more towers and frequencies for that site?

Thanks.

(and sorry I am trying to learn more about trunking systems, as my county is moving from VHF to UHF trunking system soon)

There are several factors in play here. First, as you indicate, they would need to add many towers and frequencies to properly cover the city fully. Second, many new talkgroups would need to be added to the state system. The third factor, which is probably the major sticking point, is cost and control.

If the city owned the system, they have full control and can easily add talkgroups, radios, and additional agencies as desired. By joining the statewide system, they must work with them to add these as they're needed. If they owned the system and had an emergency need for new talkgroups (say for a special event) they could simply ask their radio folks to create them and get them added to the desired radios. If they were on the statewide system it may take too long to get this accomplished (as well as being charged for doing so).

The statewide system charges a monthly fee for each radio on the system, so there's an ongoing cost. If the city owned their own system, they pay upfront for the radios (possibly using grant money) and have only minimal monthly costs (for maint, repairs, etc.). Using the statewide system, there may be a time when they would need to give up some of their radios due to a budget shortfall (to save the monthly cost) where if they owned their own system this wouldn't be on the table (although the radios may not get repaired or replaced if broken due to the lack of funds).
 

werinshades

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Chicago's 477-478.xxx system is sitting idle due to all the red-tape, politics, corruption, etc. Moto built this system, but had to stop due to all the BS red-tape crap. Moto have given this unfinished system to Chicago, told them when they get their **** together and towers up, then they will finish the job.

Not true...system is completed and ready to go. Making some adjustments at the console level, and checking the 8 "in-hospital" repeaters they have before EMS switches permanently. 5 digital channels will be available, analog UHF simplex channels will be used for fireground and EMS Command and other on-scene operations. All Battalion Chief, and EMS Field Chief will have a bank of channels that will be encrypted if needed for secure communications. Once they "flip the switch" , Motorola has given the city a 1 year waranty on the system. They are going to replace anything that goes wrong during that period without cost to the city. This is why they're having Motorola make all the adjustments and modifications before it goes on line.

The 460 Mhz system is being narrowbanded as I previously posted. They have added some tactical channels that will be programmed into the C-Bank on all the radios once all narrowbanding is completed. Their will be some significant changes to Chicago's communications soon.
 

Awesomeman92

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If they did ever move to Starcom (which I don't see happening anytime soon), they would probably have to either create their own zone (like the county did) or join up on the Cook system. It might happen if they ever have to upgrade from the P25 system they're going to upgrade to, and even then I doubt they'd join SC, just because of the amount of radios they'd have to pay subscription fees for. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something similar to what the county or Champaign-Urbana has done, make their own system that can be linked for mutual aid, but is otherwise separate. But I think they're just fine on the UHF system they're on/upgrading to.
 

N9JIG

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The existing StarCom21 infrastructure could not handle a fraction of the traffic the City has between PD, FD and EMS, not to mention the rest of the departments like S&S or CDOT etc. The system as it is now with 2 Sites with less than a dozen channels each to cover all of Cook County's various state and local StarCom21 agencies is tight on talk channels already. While they could add more channels (if available) they would need to add a boatload of new sites to provide the street and building penetration CPD and CFD need.

The only way it would be done is the same way Cook County did, by building their own compatible infrastructure geared directly to the City's needs. The various technical parameters would be coordinated with StarCom21, such as talkgroup and radio ID's. The City of Chicago would own and maintain their own infrastructure and radios like Cook County does now.

This would address the command and control situation others have mentioned and allow the City to access the statewide system directly.

All that said, I don't see that happening at all. The City has invested heavily in it's UHF systems on both sides of the isle and unless the Feds come thru with buckets of grant money to pay for it, it ain't gonna happen. I could see some level of cooperation with Cook County perhaps if enough channels and infrastructure was made available but that would be a tough sell.
 

XTS3000

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Not true...system is completed and ready to go. Making some adjustments at the console level, and checking the 8 "in-hospital" repeaters they have before EMS switches permanently. 5 digital channels will be available, analog UHF simplex channels will be used for fireground and EMS Command and other on-scene operations. All Battalion Chief, and EMS Field Chief will have a bank of channels that will be encrypted if needed for secure communications. Once they "flip the switch" , Motorola has given the city a 1 year waranty on the system. They are going to replace anything that goes wrong during that period without cost to the city. This is why they're having Motorola make all the adjustments and modifications before it goes on line.

The 460 Mhz system is being narrowbanded as I previously posted. They have added some tactical channels that will be programmed into the C-Bank on all the radios once all narrowbanding is completed. Their will be some significant changes to Chicago's communications soon.

This system was supposed to be a trunking system, but the city never came through with all the additional repeater sites, Without these additional sites, the system could not work properly with dead zones, so for now its conventional.
 

werinshades

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This system was supposed to be a trunking system, but the city never came through with all the additional repeater sites, Without these additional sites, the system could not work properly with dead zones, so for now its conventional.

Not sure where you heard that either, but not true. They have added numerous receiver sites for this system, on top of bridges, in hospitals and monopole sites too. This is the reason the system can use portable radios, which it will be until new apparatus' are ordered and XTL 5000's are installed as thay are now. Their was never an intention of making this a trunking system, even though it would make more sense to take the whole city communications system and consolidate it.


The good news for us, the listeners, is we'll still be able to monitor it. No Open Sky, little if no encryption, and they're now "narrowband compliant", little interruption for the users or listeners.
 

KB9WUV

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Can some one explain what the plans are for the under used CPD trunk system and the OEMC system? Why not merge the two systems to one digital system!!!
 

werinshades

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Can some one explain what the plans are for the under used CPD trunk system and the OEMC system? Why not merge the two systems to one digital system!!!

At one time Streets and Sanitation and CTA were supposed to use the old CHA Police system (Now known as the OEMC system). The CPD Trunking system has receiver sites at some of the suburban areas for the Narcotics and Gang Units when they were using it. Nextels are still being used, but i'm hearing their is some thought to returning to the STIX radios.
 
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