CISO Surviellance GTA

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ocscan

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Last night I monitored some clear P25 CISO surviellance. At least two of the users were plain P25 with an unknown number of other encrypted. Heard on a couple of Towers in the GTA. I've had my 996T for one week and have highly recommend it. Traffic was on TG 1712. All traffic was on the Fleetnet system.
 

petergriffin

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Last night I monitored some clear P25 CISO surviellance. At least two of the users were plain P25 with an unknown number of other encrypted. Heard on a couple of Towers in the GTA. I've had my 996T for one week and have highly recommend it. Traffic was on TG 1712. All traffic was on the Fleetnet system.
Dude!, this is why they put encryption on their radios because ppl like you blabber on a national forum that there is surveillance going on in a certain area..
Think about it for a minute! most of the time they are not encrypted. There are many TG's or channels they could use, so the odds of the "TARGET" hearing them is quite low and most ppl they are surveiling are not a) smart enough to know how to get a scanner B) to program a scanner c) or even if they have a scanner they can't be monitoring all the channels at once.
So by you going on telling the TG id of surveillance in the clear in a specific area. any "smart" criminal that could be using this forum is now going to be glued to that TG to see if they are the ones under the eye. then the police realize this then they have to turn the encryption on. which takes the fun out of the hobby for law abiding scannerist like my self.
as the saying goes discreet is elite and if you hear something really juicy in the future, keep it to your self.
 

JEC18159

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Dude!, this is why they put encryption on their radios because ppl like you blabber on a national forum that there is surveillance going on in a certain area..
Think about it for a minute! most of the time they are not encrypted. There are many TG's or channels they could use, so the odds of the "TARGET" hearing them is quite low and most ppl they are surveiling are not a) smart enough to know how to get a scanner B) to program a scanner c) or even if they have a scanner they can't be monitoring all the channels at once.
So by you going on telling the TG id of surveillance in the clear in a specific area. any "smart" criminal that could be using this forum is now going to be glued to that TG to see if they are the ones under the eye. then the police realize this then they have to turn the encryption on. which takes the fun out of the hobby for law abiding scannerist like my self.
as the saying goes discreet is elite and if you hear something really juicy in the future, keep it to your self.
Agreed 110%!
 

ocscan

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I didn't mention anything to identify the target, or officers involved. The TG is previously listed and most importantly the info posted was only to confirm existing info as being incorrect. If your arguement is to be supported then we should ban information like this website. Security thru obscurity is a weak argument. I never post information that would "obstruct police" or put people at risk.

Anyway the purpose of me post was to indicate information that said TG's were encrypted was wrong.. it wasonly P25 digital. AND!!!! I didn't post it until the surveillance was completed...
 

EJB

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ONSCAN:
I dont think you get what the others are trying to tell you.

There are many people on here who worry, maybe rightfully so, that if we mention that sensitive comms are being mentioned on a public website then everythig will go encrypted. I dont know nor do i care if police are here reading what we are typing but:

It is kinda against the law to mention, on a public forum no less that the CISO are trailing someone.

I and most of us on here will never mention ever that there is activity on the Surveillance talkgroups or not. It has been mentioned many times on here that sometimes officers do not press their encyption button, some do.

Whether or not the police dont like it if we are mentioning their stakeouts it is just common sense to enjoy what you hear & keep it to yourself.

I and 99% of the members here mention nothing especially sensitive comms.


You see who the TPS, Halton PS, + OPP etc, busted last week, the MS gang. What happens if some person mentions they heard surveillance in the clear, etc. What happens if you mentioning it doesnt f-up their investigations?
Paranoid maybe but discrete is elite.
 
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ocscan

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I mentioned that a listed encypted TG was only P25. I didn't post while activity was ongoing and I didn't post any identifying info? <tongue bitten> Anyways lets end the discussion. I felt the post was ok, others didn't... the moderator agreed with me? Not ment to offend anyone or promote criminal intrests.
 
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Muxlow

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Iv herd all 3 of them channels and they were encrypted. Aswell as a suv ones. Some days they are. Some days they are not. So its a 50 50 chance it seems. For the most part they are encrypted that iv ever herd
 

DaveH

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Not at all disagreeing with the need for discretion, and hoping not to
start a big debate, but should the CISO and Intelligence TG (and
conventional) info have been submitted to the DB; and even with
the "horse out of the barn", should it stay there?

Dave
 

mikewazowski

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The site has a policy against the censorship of information.

If somebody submits it, into the database it goes.

If the agencies involved are concerned, they should flip the big encryption switch.
 

Forts

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Lets not also forget.... overall I would imagine the # of digital scanner users out there that actively monitor (or could monitor) these comms are pretty small, all things considered. Sure lots of people have scanners, but the vast majority are older analog ones and most 'casual' listeners won't fork over $500 or $600 for a new digital model. So even though 'sensitive' talkgroups are listed, every common Joe isn't listening in. You could make the argument that RCMP frequencies etc etc shouldn't be listed too, but the debate over whats sensitive and what isn't would never end. Like Mike said, if the powers that be are concerned about it they will rectify it on their end pretty quickly.

I also agree with the others on here, when you hear something good keep it to yourself or talk about it with your friends in a private discussion.
 

unlisted

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Not to beat a dead horse on this topic, (and also slightly off topic) but.... regarding scanner laws in Canada, I believe these are still law. (can someone confirm?)

1. Illegal to disclose information heard to third party
2. Illegal to make use of or divulge radio-based telephone communication
3. Illegal to receive or decode an encrypted subscription programming signal
4. Illegal to "intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it" except for publicly accessible broadcasting services

So what I basically get from this, is you can listen, but not share with others... right?


And trust me, its really easy to forget to press that little encryption switch on certain radios..Or have the radio given to you by someone else and they accidentally switched it off at some point... I've done this a few times in the past... And unless you happen to look at the display, you really don't have any other way to notice. (at least with the radios I was using at the time)
 

exkalibur

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What encryption type does Fleetnet utilize at the moment...DES-XL,etc?
DES-XL only.

They have DES-XL/OFB modules in the radios, but for some idiotic reason (probably because they don't know their head from a hole in the ground) BMR didn't enable OFB. Greater security, and you already have it? Naw, we don't want that...
 

Pyr8

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Mandalore system :|]
DES-XL only.

They have DES-XL/OFB modules in the radios, but for some idiotic reason (probably because they don't know their head from a hole in the ground) BMR didn't enable OFB. Greater security, and you already have it? Naw, we don't want that...
lol!...
 
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