City of Pittsburgh Fire 2 - Weak Signal?

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lildobe

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I've been an avid scanner listener for many years, but took a break from the hobby for several years. I recently pulled all my scanners out and set everything back up and, while I don't have a "great" antenna solution, what I have should be fine for the local scanning I'm doing and, for the most part, it is.

With one exception - Pittsburgh Fire 2 (Old channel 6). Every other city (And for the most part Allegheny County) frequency comes in loud and clear, but Fire 2 always comes in like I was trying to pick up something in Beaver County from my house. The signal is steady - no intermod or fluttering. Just weak.

I also notice this in my car. The only time Fire 2 comes in clear is if I'm between the rivers. But the moment I'm up in Reserve Twp, or on the other side of Mt. Washington, it's weak.

So you have some context, I like in the Knoxville neighborhood, near the old Knoxville elementary school, my antenna is an (old but fully functional) Radio Shack Mag-Mount mobile scanner antenna on my 3rd floor air conditioner about 30-feet above the ground, on the East side of the house, connected to a Stridsberg 8-port active multicoupler. (And yes, I tried it without the multicoupler and it's just as bad)

I know the city has three transmitter sites - one on Mt. Washington up on the water tanks at Grandview Park, one on the tower at the Reservoir off of Aldalade St, and the Third over on the tower in the public works yard in the West End off of Hassler St.

Of those three, the only one I don't have LoS to is Aldalade St, and technically the West End site, but it's so close to being LoS that it shouldn't really matter. Could it be that they just aren't simulcasting Fire 2 to all three sites and only pushing it out from that one site?

Radio path plots:
Reservoir site: West End: and
Grandview Park: https://i.imgur.com/t2tzmMD.png

Thanks in advance for any info!

Andrew - K9LDT
 

PGHSCANNERWACKER1

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im from Pittsburgh to and honestly ever since everything went narrow band I noticed some Pittsburgh channels to sound not as clear as they use to be.
 

lildobe

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im from Pittsburgh to and honestly ever since everything went narrow band I noticed some Pittsburgh channels to sound not as clear as they use to be.
It doesn't help that a lot of the officers like to leave the mic in their lap while they are talking.

As for the narrowbanding, an older scanner that doesn't have a NFM (Narrow FM) mode isn't going to pick up the signal as "strongly" or as "loudly" as one designed for narrowband.

This is because a narrowband signal has half (or a quarter in the case of 6.25 KHz channel spacing) of the deviation of a normal 25 KHz FM radio signal.
 

R2

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I live over by Channel 11 (WPXI) and have almost non existent reception on EMS 1. Fire 1 & 2 are loud and clear, as are most other county frequencies. The issues I'm having on EMS1 have been since late summer, early fall. I run several radios, from an old BC200 up to SDS 100 & 200, all are having issues. Funny thing is when EMS is sent on Fire 2 dispatches, I never hear anything on EMS1, but as the units call in on Fire 2 they are loud and clear!! I'm a retired paramedic, and was issued a Motorola portable, never had issues with that... BTW, when did the City go to narrow banding?
 

fire42man

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I have LoS with both the reservoir and grandview sites but I only occasionally have signal issues with Fire 2. I know there's been issues in the past where that channel specifically was inoperable during an incident (last occurrence I can remember might have been a year ago)
 

R2

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About 8 years ago, the house across the street caught fire, Fire 1 was perfectly clear, Fire 2 was just all static, totally opposite of how it is today...
 

lildobe

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I live over by Channel 11 (WPXI) and have almost non existent reception on EMS 1. Fire 1 & 2 are loud and clear, as are most other county frequencies. The issues I'm having on EMS1 have been since late summer, early fall.
[...]
BTW, when did the City go to narrow banding?

Is the issue with EMS1 constant? Over by WPXI (I assume you mean the "new" studio near the McKnight Rd exit on 279) you've got a BUNCH of UHF transmitters all clustered together, which could just be overloading the front end of your radios. Try turning on attenuation and see of that helps.

If you're up on Television Hill, you're near several pager transmitters on the WPXI tower, and that tower in Reserve Twp, which could also be affecting you, even in the other location.

As for narrowbanding, that happened in 2011 or 2012, before the January 1st 2013 mandate from the FCC, if I remember
 

R2

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Pretty much constant with EMS1, seems to have started last summer before I got the SDS 200 & 100. I'm near the 'new' studio off McKnight. Yes, a lot of stuff around here! Way back when the Bearcat 210 was released(40+ yrs ago), had some issues, and spoke to an engineer of one of the local radio stations who was able to explain everything that was around here.
 

R2

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turned on attenuation on the SDS200, it's now receiving EMS1, although very scratch, nothing like it used to be.
But it's progress, Thanks lildobe!
 

lildobe

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Not a problem. At least the attenuator is helping with your problem. Mine is probably going to require an 80-foot tower or moving 4 blocks north.
 

ffemt134

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The whole dynamic of their system seems to have changed over time.

I'm about 15 miles north of the city. Pre-narrowband, with an attic mounted antenna, I could receive Fire 5 & 6 (now called 1 & 2) without much difficulty. I could pick up EMS dispatch most of the time, but it wasn't always reliable. I could *never* receive the police dispatch channel for Zones 3 & 6, ever.

Post-Narrowband, aside from the general reduced strength it brings, EMS Dispatch is next to impossible to pick up, and when I do there's always horrible intermod/background hum. I can still receive Fire 1 sometimes, haven't programmed in Fire 2 to check. Oddly enough the PD Zone 3/6 channel is now receivable for me.
 

R2

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Well, this morning, the 200 doesn't even stop on EMS1 while scanning. When locked on, voice is barely audible, mostly static...
Scanning on the 436 while the 200 is locked, the 436 is receiving Fire1 and some of the North Hills traffic.
Seems the NH PD 10 comes in the best...
And this morning Monroeville Fire and PD were loud and clear on the 200
 

n3obl

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My honest opinion is that the city doesn't seem to keen to maintaining the site hardware. Id be shocked to see how their antennas perform and sweeped out.
 

R2

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Well, this is interesting. I have an accessories Unlimited 16" mag mount antenna. I took it and set it outside the window, and suddenly EMS1 comes in loud and clear!
the antenna had been sitting on the window sill, didn't know that glass had that much affect on radio signals!
 
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