City of Wilson P25

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RMPDCOP

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Just wanted to let anyone near the area know that I have begun to decode the City of Wilson's new P25 system. It is an EF Johnson System with Encryption on most Talk Groups.
As of right now these are the following Talk Groups I have recorded:
857.2125 AC
858.6875 CC
1000 Encrypted
1012 Encrytped
2000 Encrypted
2001 Encrypted TAC1 Unknown Department (Radio Service Testing)
3000 Clear
3001 Clear Water and Sewer
3003 Clear
3004 Clear
3006 Clear Wilson Med Internal
3008 Clear Street Department
3011 Clear Street Maintenance
3013 Clear Electrical Department
3022 Clear Utilities
3025 Clear
3501 Clear Radio Service A
3503 Clear Radio Service B
I will add what has been confirmed to the Database. It seems that most Public Works will be in the clear and other departments such as Police, Fire and EMS will be encrypted.
If anyone can help with monitoring that would be great. I do not know when this system will go fully operational.
 

yardbird

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Concord, NC
Keep up the good work Greg!

Way to go.

The thing I don't understand is why these cities and counties keep on vesting all this taxpayer money into a 800 Mhz when there is one already available to them. All they have to do is buy the radios. Especially one that has no way of communicating with other systems that surround them

I don't understand why there is such a big secret about Fire and EMS being encypted. I can see and understand Police Vice and other Specialized Units being Encrypted.

Fire & EMS give me a break.

Like I said in another post. Scanner monitoring is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

The honest man has to pay for the crooks mistakes.

Just my thoughts

David
 

monitor142

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I believe Wilson had an 800MHz system already. After the Nextel debacle, I guess the funding was found, probably grants, to upgrade their old system to P25.

-M142
 

RMPDCOP

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I believe Wilson had an 800MHz system already. After the Nextel debacle, I guess the funding was found, probably grants, to upgrade their old system to P25.

-M142
You are correct. They had the LTR System in place already for Public Works and they have begun to migrate the frequencies used for that over to the P25 System.
The Nextel System was a total disaster. I do not know how they functioned using it.
Also they did get federal funding for the new system.
 

ILMRadioMan

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The road to no where.
Keep up the good work Greg!

Way to go.

The thing I don't understand is why these cities and counties keep on vesting all this taxpayer money into a 800 Mhz when there is one already available to them. All they have to do is buy the radios. Especially one that has no way of communicating with other systems that surround them

I don't understand why there is such a big secret about Fire and EMS being encypted. I can see and understand Police Vice and other Specialized Units being Encrypted.

Fire & EMS give me a break.

Like I said in another post. Scanner monitoring is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

The honest man has to pay for the crooks mistakes.

Just my thoughts

David
David,

There is one word that will answer your question:

Control.

The ability to control the entire system, rather than simply have communications, and the control lies elsewhere.
 

jthorpe

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Control is the key word like was already said. Politics, control and perceived job security play a lot into it, even if it means causing their taxpayers more money, and reducing the ability to have interoperability with other agencies. NOT smart decisions, but most of those guys don't care, because they want their "domain" so to speak be theirs and theirs alone. God forbid they actually look out for their citizens. Wayne County is a good example of money wasted as well.
 

murrayustud

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I give scanning (public safety that is) about 5 more years before everything except Amateur Radio/business stuff is encrypted. Good reason for me NOT to buy that new Uniden 996xt, think I'll just stay with the Pro-96/Pro-2096. Funny, 20 years ago all the complaints were "no one is able to communicate with each other because we are all on different systems" Here we are 20 years later and billions of dollars later & it's all the same argument except on a higher frequency range...
 

RMPDCOP

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Preach on brother. Anyway I have updated the Database to show the new Talk Groups for the new P25 System.
Also I do not know if this will change but it seems Talk Group 2000 is Fire Dispatch and they are in the clear as of right now.
 

airbear21200

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SE NC
Nice job piecing that out Greg. I have been told by sources in both the PD and FD that the entire system is being "controlled" by the City's "IT" department and very little information seems to be provided to the real users. Comments from both sides, and even on admin levels, indicate that IT says here is your radios, this is what you get and that is it. There are several "channels" that are "VIPER". Not sure if they are actual VIPER tg's, fixed links or patches set up through dispatch.
I hope to get to see and find out a bit more when I am though in July.
 

KE4ZNR

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I give scanning (public safety that is) about 5 more years before everything except Amateur Radio/business stuff is encrypted. Good reason for me NOT to buy that new Uniden 996xt, think I'll just stay with the Pro-96/Pro-2096. Funny, 20 years ago all the complaints were "no one is able to communicate with each other because we are all on different systems" Here we are 20 years later and billions of dollars later & it's all the same argument except on a higher frequency range...
*sigh* Someone needs to ease up on the doom 'n' gloom kool-aid.
Sure this particular system has more channels than others encrypted but
that (thankfully) is not the mindset of the majority of those that run
such systems. Consider Durham: Rik Rassmussen has always been
very open to the hobby and helpful.
Heck, consider VIPER. Sure there are talkgroups here and there that are
encrypted but the majority of talkgroups are able to be monitored.
I guess I am just a "glass half full" type of guy :) but from what
I have seen "behind the scenes" our radio monitoring hobby is far from the bleak picture you try to paint above. I hope by now that everyone knows that I am a trustworthy repository of radio info. I have alot of radio comm info that is passed along anonymously to me. The majority I share. If the future of the hobby was as bleak as the post above I would tell everyone.
I guess to sum up: Let's think positive. We are very lucky in NC. Things could be alot worse: we could be in FL with SLERS.
Happy Monitoring to all,
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

KE4ZNR

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Funny, 20 years ago all the complaints were "no one is able to communicate with each other because we are all on different systems" Here we are 20 years later and billions of dollars later & it's all the same argument except on a higher frequency range...
Oh and to make a quick comment here: All users on VIPER have access to common channels that are programmed into each and every radio. And with interop solutions such as the ACU-1000 (and the like), those that are not on VIPER can communicate with those that are. So if an agency says they can't communicate then it is a failure on that agency alone. The options and resources are there, more training needs to be done with that agency if they try to use the above excuse.
20 Years ago, we had no VIPER, we had no ACU-1000's, we had piss-poor interop solutions.
We are much better today Interoperability wise.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

jeffmulter

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The thing I don't understand is why these cities and counties keep on vesting all this taxpayer money into a 800 Mhz when there is one already available to them. All they have to do is buy the radios. Especially one that has no way of communicating with other systems that surround them.
I understand the concerns a taxpayer would have about the cost and yearly maintenance expenses the City of Wilson will incur. My gut feeling, after reading that EF Johnson was acquired by an investment firm the other day, is that Wilson probably got a pretty good deal on the system they bought.

What I don't understand are the concerns some of you have about interoperability. The state has EF Johnson P25 radios subscribed on the Viper system, and the Viper faqs mention the EF Johnson P25 radios are compatible with the system (with the loss of some minor features specific to Motorola radios, from what I have read).

If Wilson chose to subscribe their EF Johnson radios on the Viper system, they have the same interoperability on Viper that any agency using Motorola radios has.

The "voice interoperability" from the Viper name reflects the intention that the system was never intended to provide a giant party line on every talkgroup. I read some comments from a Dare County fireman awhile back, ... he was upset that his new 800 radio didn't also have Hyde County's fire and ems talkgroups programmed in it. There was never an intent for every town and county to have the talkgroups for every other town and county in their area.

That is why everyone has access to specific common talkgroups ... for interoperability and calling.

When we talk about system costs, I'm surprised that no one ever suggests that Mecklenberg County, Wake County, New Hanover County, etc dismantle their systems and move their communications to Viper.

Why not ? In Mecklenberg County, they are closing schools, libraries, and laying off hundreds of employees ... yet they can afford to operate - and expand - a regional trunking system that is partly funded through city and county taxes.

With regards to an I.T. department handling the public safety radio system, that appears to be common among towns, and small cities. It makes sense, from the standpoint that public safety communications no longer is limited to voice radio. It includes data, networking, laptops, wireless handheld devices, GPS, modems, vehicle printers, video ... you get the picture !

Unfortunately, some "geeks" are not good instructors for teaching users how to operate a device.

Anyway, sorry to rant. I'm just a strong believer in the K.I.S.S. concept.
 

CCHLLM

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....and few, if any, of the IT geeks even comprehend the RF side of the equipment, much less how to diagnose any kind of RF problem. I recently heard one employed by one of the larger systems in NC make the statement that, "It either receives and places calls or it doesn't. There's nothing wrong with the antenna." I guess he thinks it's a cell phone, and he obviously doesn't grasp the concept that even that is a two way radio. Just because the service side of a Quantar and an XTS5000 requires a computer doesn't mean all that IT wallpaper and computer merit badges you got will give you any comprehension of just what you're adjusting and what effect that adjustment has on the actual performance of the device.

Then for all the people who carry a radio as part of the job, let's throw in the part about a total lack of radio interops protocols planning or instruction on the part of those who don't use a radio but get to call all the shots for the ones who actually do use the radio system.
 
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jeffmulter

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Hi, Wx ... I'm not saying that including two-way radio needs within the scope of an I.T. department is necessarily the best direction to go. But it is sometimes the logical direction when officials look at radio in the same light as other electronic tools.

And, if your agency is planning on implementing VoIP as a component of your radio system, it may make even more sense.

>> Then for all the people who carry a radio as part of the job, let's throw in the part about a total lack of radio interops protocols planning or instruction on the part of those who don't use a radio but get to call all the shots for the ones who actually do use the radio system.

I hope the APCO - and the LMR industry - gets more-involved in pushing for agencies to establish interop agreements, protocols and planning. My understanding is that atleast one LMR dealer was recently fined by the F.C.C. for programming a fire agency's radios with frequencies licensed for a neighboring fire department. The first agency did not have permission or an agreement in-place to transmit on the frequencies, and the F.C.C. cited the dealer for making the frequencies available to agency he was servicing.
 

RMPDCOP

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It seems that it will not be long before the new system is in full operation. Radio Service was testing all day today. I was able to monitor the system with PRO96 Comm and this is what seems to be the Talk Group catagories.
1000-1012 POLICE (Encrypted)
2000-2005 FIRE (Clear)
3000-3025 Public Works (Clear)
4000-400? EMS (Encrypted)
I am sure this will change as this system is still being tested. I will update the database as I get new information.
 

RMPDCOP

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It seems that it will not be long before the new system is in full operation. Radio Service was testing all day today. I was able to monitor the system with PRO96 Comm and this is what seems to be the Talk Group catagories.
1000-1012 POLICE (Encrypted)
2000-2005 FIRE (Clear)
3000-3025 Public Works (Clear)
4000-400? EMS (Encrypted)
I am sure this will change as this system is still being tested. I will update the database as I get new information.
It seems that the new system is fully online but I am sure there is some testing that still needs to be done. The simulcast with VHF Channel 1 is no longer in use. I do not know if it will eventually be used again but as of this morning it is no longer used to simulcast the Dispatch side of Wilson PD.
Also I am not sure what Talk Group category the 4000 group is but as of this morning it appears that EMS will be dispatched on Fire.
 

ericsmith

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Wilson, North Carolina
Wilson P25 system

Greetings,

If anybody is interested in our P25 system I have some information and will be happy to share it. I work for the police department and managed the police department part of the project. I have all of the talkgroup id's and some other information. However, I'm not sure of the etiquette here and I don't want to spoil anybody's fun in trying to decode the system. I just helped program three P25 digital scanners for the local newspaper.

Let me know if anybody's interested.

Eric Smith
 

RMPDCOP

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Greetings,

If anybody is interested in our P25 system I have some information and will be happy to share it. I work for the police department and managed the police department part of the project. I have all of the talkgroup id's and some other information. However, I'm not sure of the etiquette here and I don't want to spoil anybody's fun in trying to decode the system. I just helped program three P25 digital scanners for the local newspaper.

Let me know if anybody's interested.

Eric Smith
Welcome to RR.com Eric,
We are glad to have you with us. It would most appreciated if you could passs that information along. If you would like to send it to me off forum my email address is brown_bg@earthlink.net.
Although it is very intriguing to try and figure out a new system, it is always very helpful to have someone on the inside with the correct information.
I have listed in the Database what I have been able to figure out. If you send me what you have I can make this system true.
 

ericsmith

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Wilson, North Carolina
Wilson P25 System

Okay,

Here are the frequencies:

854.5375
856.2125
856.4375
857.2125
857.4375
857.5125
858.2125
858.4375
858.6875
859.2125
859.4375



Here is a list of our talkgroups:


Name Freq/ID
WPD MAIN 1000
WPD TA1 1001
WPD TA2 1002
WPD SP EV1 1003
WPD SP EV2 1004
WPDSRT 1005
WPDNARC 1006
WPDDET 1007
WPDTAC1 1008
WPDTAC2 1009
WPDTAC3 1010
WPDTAC4 1011
WCSO PATCH 1012
WF/RS Main 2000
WF/RS TAC1 2001
WF/RS TAC2 2002
WF/RS TAC3 2003
WF/RS TAC4 2004
WF/RS TAC5 2005
FIRE TA1 2006
FIRE TA2 2007
WF/RS ADMIN 2008
WF/RS PREV 2009
PW DISPATCH 3004
SAFETY 3021
CUST SERVICE 3022
ELECTRIC 3013
GAS 3014
GARAGE 3009
LOAD MGMT 3015
METER SHOP 3016
OFFICE 3017
ALL CALL 3501
MAINT 3019
TRUK/TRUK 3020
STREET 3011
PW ENGINEERING 3010
COW EVENT 1 4000
COW EVENT 2 4001
COW EVENT 3 4002
COW EVENT 4 4003
COW EVENT 5 4004
COW EVENT 6 4005
COW EVENT 7 4006
COW EVENT 8 4007
COW EVENT 9 4008
COW EVENT 10 4009
COW EVENT 11 4010
COW EVENT 12 4011
COW EVENT 13 4012
COW EVENT 14 4013
COW EVENT 15 4014
COW EVENT 16 4015

Everything in the 1000 range (police) is encrypted. I think everything else is in the clear.

As for the interoperability discussion, we did in fact get VIPER ID's for all police and fire units, and they are all programmed with the basic VIPER template. We were also assigned a very limited number of talkgroups on the VIPER system that we can use in case we have a need for a backup system. Alll we have to do is change the channel and we have a backup system. We can now also communicate with the Highway Patrol and others on the VIPER system. It really works well.
 

WA4MJF

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jeffmulter, I've been told, when I asked how come I can affilliate with TAC TGs outside my area, that
the OP and TAC TGs are the same statewide. Have you heard this? Might be the answer to your
Dare County question about Hyde. Can't talk to their dispatch, but can talk to the Hyde units on the
OP and TAC TGs. Never tried it, so I can't verify it.
 
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