Cleveland National Forest New Forest Net

[es93546]

When I was searching on information for Lyons Peak I found this picture of the lookout building in 1913. They have more pictures at the link

Lyons Peak – FFLA-SDRC

www.ffla-sandiego.org

View attachment 180756

That building is so small it would seem that there isn't enough room to circle around a fire finder to get readings. I wonder if they had a tripod mounted staff compass instead. We used these in forestry school just to be familiar with them. They were the primary tool in surveying at one time. They are a large faced, long needled compass that is large in circumference enough that you could estimate half degrees with some accuracy. Nothing like present day surveying where you can't place a brass cap for a corner as accurately as the instruments can place the location of that corner. I think those instruments get down into the thousands of an inch of precision.

Edit: This peak is located a mile and a quarter west of the main boundary of the Cleveland NF. It is located on a quarter section of National Forest land (160 acres) with the Cleveland NF boundary around it. It has some BLM land adjacent to it so it must have been BLM land at some point and transferred over to the USFS long ago.

My forestry school was at Northern Arizona University in the early 1970's. To become a forester requires a 4 year bachelor of science degree. Same for being a licensed forester in the state and private sectors.

 

[Teotwaki]

That building is so small it would seem that there isn't enough room to circle around a fire finder to get readings. I wonder if they had a tripod mounted staff compass instead. We used these in forestry school just to be familiar with them. They were the primary tool in surveying at one time. They are a large faced, long needled compass that is large in circumference enough that you could estimate half degrees with some accuracy. Nothing like present day surveying where you can't place a brass cap for a corner as accurately as the instruments can place the location of that corner. I think those instruments get down into the thousands of an inch of precision.

Up until 1914 the early Osborne firefinders were only 14" across

 

[es93546]

Up until 1914 the early Osborne firefinders were only 14" across

Interesting, I did not know that. They didn't have a very large map in it then, or it was of such a scale to cover a large area on a small map. Make sure to read the edit of my last post.

 

[Teotwaki]

I found a picture of a 1915 version which was slightly larger. Maybe 18 inches? The topo map remained at 14"

 

[es93546]

I found a picture of a 1915 version which was slightly larger. Maybe 18 inches? The topo map remained at 14"
View attachment 181744

Nice find Jim! I like the pinpoint sighting tool on it. I assume it raises and lowers by some means. Present day fire finders use a 1/2" per mile scale, the same as the forest visitor's map. The map in this picture appears larger in scale, therefore covering a smaller overall area.

 

[Mikek]

Can the 406.525 link be monitored on a handheld in the OC area, or does one need to point a yagi at the hill?

 

[Teotwaki]

Had a lucky break on link radio locations. Two at once: 13 & 14

I had to look up Tone 14 in the database as it was not in my document. The "Wooded Hill" building/site is somewhere on Mt. Laguna it seems. Glad someone knew about it!

Forest Net tones/sites announced for link 406.525 - Tones: 2,4,5,7,9,11, 13, 14
Locations: Santiago, High Point, Cuyamaca, Los Pinos, Lyons Peak, Black Mtn, Camp Pendleton, Wooded Hill

Admin link tones/sites announced for link 406.225 - Tones: 4, 9 (Admin is not a busy channel)
Locations: High Point, Lyon Peak

Tones​

CNF Repeaters

Tone	Location - Nets at location	CTCSS Tone
1	Sierra - Forest	110.9
2	Santiago Peak - Forest/Admin/Service	123.0
3	Elsinore - Forest/Admin	131.8
4	High Point - Forest/Admin	136.5
5	Cuyumaca - Forest/Admin	146.2
6	Ortega - Forest	156.7
7	Los Pinos - Forest/Admin	167.9
8	Boucher - Forest/Admin	103.5
9	Lyons Peak - Forest/Admin	100.0
10	Portable Repeater - Forest/Admin	107.2
11	Black Mtn. - Forest/Admin	114.8
12	Sitton Peak - Forest/Admin	127.3
13	Camp Pendleton - Forest/Admin	141.3
14	Wooded Hill - Forest/Admin	151.4

 

[Teotwaki]

Can the 406.525 link be monitored on a handheld in the OC area, or does one need to point a yagi at the hill?

I do have them in my mobile radio but I never tried a handheld scanner. I'll try and let you know.

 

[Teotwaki]

Can the 406.525 link be monitored on a handheld in the OC area, or does one need to point a yagi at the hill?

My scanner with a large "rubber duck" can pick it up but it was noisy until I moved around and found a slightly stronger sweet spot. I next tried a Nagoya dual bander, about 14-ish inches long, of the type that goes onto a Baofeng UV-5R. I still had to find a hot spot but it had a lot more quieting. I imagine the signal is coming off of the back side of a Yagi pointed somewhere else.

 

[AM909]

Can the 406.525 link be monitored on a handheld in the OC area, or does one need to point a yagi at the hill?

... I next tried a Nagoya dual bander, about 14-ish inches long, of the type that goes onto a Baofeng UV-5R...

Me too. I didn't hear anything during several morning hours yesterday, including during the earthquake. They are pretty low power and directional IIRC.

 

[ecps92]

Me too. I didn't hear anything during several morning hours yesterday, including during the earthquake. They are pretty low power and directional IIRC.

Yes, usually directional back to the Dispatch Centers only

 

[es93546]

Hi there!

Yes, it does sound like CNF has officially made the switch to the new frequency pair for their Forest Net. It’s great to hear that you’re getting a strong signal from the Santiago repeater!

I noticed the same thing—no traffic on the old pair lately. It seems like the testing over the weekend was a good sign that they were preparing for a full cutover. I’m curious to see how the new setup performs in terms of clarity and range.

Have you heard any specific updates regarding the new pair or any plans for additional testing? It would be interesting to know how it’s working for everyone else in the area as well.

Looking forward to your thoughts!

My site FYI: www.cnzasp.com

What is the new frequency pair for Forest Net?

 

[Teotwaki]

406.3875 Control Link 5 did have SBNF traffic on it just now. I did not get a chance to verify the tone or associated repeater

406.225 Control Link 1 CNF Admin 192.8
406.275 Control Link 2
406.325 Control Link 3
406.350 Control Link 4
406.3875 Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 Control Link 6
406.525 Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 Control Link 9
409.1875 Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 Control Link 11
410.7875 Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

 

[prcguy]

That building is so small it would seem that there isn't enough room to circle around a fire finder to get readings. I wonder if they had a tripod mounted staff compass instead. We used these in forestry school just to be familiar with them. They were the primary tool in surveying at one time. They are a large faced, long needled compass that is large in circumference enough that you could estimate half degrees with some accuracy. Nothing like present day surveying where you can't place a brass cap for a corner as accurately as the instruments can place the location of that corner. I think those instruments get down into the thousands of an inch of precision.

Edit: This peak is located a mile and a quarter west of the main boundary of the Cleveland NF. It is located on a quarter section of National Forest land (160 acres) with the Cleveland NF boundary around it. It has some BLM land adjacent to it so it must have been BLM land at some point and transferred over to the USFS long ago.

My forestry school was at Northern Arizona University in the early 1970's. To become a forester requires a 4 year bachelor of science degree. Same for being a licensed forester in the state and private sectors.

Any large amount of ferrous metals around those compasses like a tower or vehicle will ruin the accuracy.

 

[Teotwaki]

What is the new frequency pair for Forest Net?

I think that message from the one post wonder is AI generated spam as a vehicle to advertise that Chinese web site's link.

 

[Teotwaki]

I think that message from the one post wonder is AI generated spam as a vehicle to advertise that Chinese web site's link.

"Arsenlee" is gone.

 

[Teotwaki]

409.1875 was active with a strong signal and PL tone. Did not get a chance to record or match it up to a repeater. Traffic consisted of fire weather info.

406.3875 Control Link 5 did have SBNF traffic on it just now. I did not get a chance to verify the tone or associated repeater

406.225 Control Link 1 CNF Admin 192.8
406.275 Control Link 2
406.325 Control Link 3
406.350 Control Link 4
406.3875 Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 Control Link 6
406.525 Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 Control Link 9
409.1875 Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 Control Link 11
410.7875 Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

 

[Teotwaki]

409.1875 was active with a strong signal and PL tone. Did not get a chance to record or match it up to a repeater. Traffic consisted of fire weather info.

409.1875 Control Link 10 SBNF

Appears to be on SBNF Forest Net. Tones 4 and 5 were announced for the units that were talking through repeaters. There is a strong PL tone on the link channel but so far I've been unable to decode it.

4 Keller
5 Bertha

 

[Teotwaki]

Appears to be on SBNF Forest Net. Tones 4 and 5 were announced for the units that were talking through repeaters. There is a strong PL tone on the link channel but so far I've been unable to decode it.

4 Keller
5 Bertha

Adding Strawberry Peak to the traffic heard on 409.1875

Also hearing traffic on 409.3875 Control Link 11, sounded as if they said Los Padres NF

 

[Teotwaki]

Today's update - Adding Trails Volunteer 33
Black Eagles, Sequoia NF Tribal Crew/Hotshot Wildland Crew (says the Internet)
Brush 288
Camp 31
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 10, 21, 86, 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39, 64, 68 (High Point poss KFX215)
Marauders, IA crew from Antelope Valley
Mountaineer arriving at Alpine
OHV2
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 31
Trails 21, 25, 32, Volunteer 33
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36