Cleveland system crashes again.

[T-Santon]

Well, Cleveland's radio's are currently down (yet again).



http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/cleveland_radio_system_crashed.html



The days of VSELP in Cleveland are numbered...and I honestly can't wait for its death.

 

[Josh]

I personally like the system.

I know it's "days are numbered", but it's only 14-15 years old, and Motorola chose to no longer support 3600 trunking, and VSELP years ago, but let's leave that be. But it seems like the system failures of recent were the result of whatever links the towers together whether it be a lease-line or microwave, not the Motorola equipment itself.

The audio codec, while outdated, sounds pretty good. I have a VSELP Astro Saber that I can sometimes hear Cleveland from during the summer ducting season, and whenever I travel to that part of Ohio and where there's a decent quality signal, the RX audio, while high in treble, makes IMBE sound robotic.

I know IMBE is what is now, and it has advantage in using less bandwidth and being way more robust, but the Cleveland VSELP system is falling victim to current times, where technology moves at a pace that obsoletes radio systems in less than a decade. I'm sure whatever Cleveland used before this 800Mhz trs lasted more than 14-15 years!

-Josh

 

[T-Santon]

I know the crash had nothing to do with VSELP. I'm just saying that if Cleveland does start upgrading their system this year, it'll be a welcomed goodbye in my opinion.


My big issue with VSELP isn't the audio quality, or the fact that no scanner can decode it (which really sucks, but oh well). It's the fact that as long as Cleveland is using it, interoperability with surrounding suburbs will continue to be non-existent. I'm sure that every time a police pursuit starts in the suburbs and ends in Cleveland, those suburban cops would like to be able to communicate with CPD. But instead, they're left on their own, time and time again.



Okay, you got me. It is the fact that no scanner can decode it.

 

[Josh]

For the most part there is still no interoperability even with compatible systems.

I was monitoring MSP yesterday and they had a pursuit that went into Ohio. Did anyone switch channels to get on MARCS or the Lucas County system? Nope, the dispatcher for the MSP made a phone call.

Nobody talked directly on another agency's talk group. Nobody was patched together. Just a phone call from one agency to another to give them a heads up, and I'm sure that's what would happen on a pursuit ending in Cleveland.

 

[wa8pyr]

...and Motorola chose to no longer support 3600 trunking

Actually, Motorola has not ceased support of 3600 baud systems; they're still supported via the MTC3600 controller, and will be for several years. I just installed an MTC3600 on my system a few months back to replace the 6809 controller, for which support has been withdrawn.

And they will continue to maintain 6809 controllers, if they can scrounge spare parts (that "if" is one of the reasons we switched)...

In this instance for Cleveland (like the last one), it sounds like the system itself did not crash, but rather the T1 lines connecting the consoles to the controller failed again. Motorola systems are very robust, and failures causing a total system crash are extremely rare. However, all systems are vulnerable to failures of the lines connecting the various parts of the system, which it seems is what happened here (again).

Apparently (if they had to rush to get handhelds to the dispatchers) they don't have RF control stations wired into the consoles for backup or interop use; shame on them. One would think they would at least keep portables in the comm center for just such a situation (especially since this is the third time it's happened).

 

[Josh]

When power goes down locally due to weather or whatever, causing the link between the dispatch center and radio site to go down, they have at least one consolette available at the command desk to resume dispatching. Portables in gang chargers are never far out of reach either, but at least there's a couple back up options.

The only shame with the Cleveland VSELP system is the complete inability to purchase any new radios for the system. They are locked into Astro Sabers and Astro Spectra radios. While the spectra isn't bad, the saber is monstrous. There weren't many/any XTS3000 portables that came equipped with VSELP.

 

[wa8pyr]

The only shame with the Cleveland VSELP system is the complete inability to purchase any new radios for the system. They are locked into Astro Sabers and Astro Spectra radios. While the spectra isn't bad, the saber is monstrous. There weren't many/any XTS3000 portables that came equipped with VSELP.

As far as upgrading, is tying into the Parma P25 system one of Cleveland's avenues of study?

Parma has a P25 system which should have a zone controller. It could be used as the master zone controller for all of Cuyahoga County, with Cleveland and SWRCN as separate zones (with perhaps other areas like Hillcrest and Valley to be added later). If the zone controller fails, each would still keep trunking separately, but with the loss of roaming capability (and direct console connections).

Lots cheaper, too. Zone controllers are a big part of the cost of a new system.

 

[T-Santon]

I saw this recently. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the State of Ohio has in mind for Cuyahoga County...


http://www.ntia.doc.gov/psic/IJ/oh.pdf


I'll just be interested to see what Cleveland does. Obviously, the intelligent choice will be to go P25, along with the rest of the area...But it is Cleveland we're talking about here. And when you look at the city's track record, intelligent decisions are about as common as Browns Playoff games.

 

[wa8pyr]

I saw this recently. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the State of Ohio has in mind for Cuyahoga County... {snip} I'll just be interested to see what Cleveland does. Obviously, the intelligent choice will be to go P25, along with the rest of the area...But it is Cleveland we're talking about here. And when you look at the city's track record, intelligent decisions are about as common as Browns Playoff games.

Saw that not too long ago as well, here in the office. Assuming use of the Parma master controller, $4.85 million might be about enough to buy new P25 repeaters for the Cleveland sites. Since they already have the frequencies, antennas and combiners already in place, it might be doable.

Next... Assuming they need all 4800 mobiles and portables listed on their license, add another $18 million. Throw in several million more for consoles, and you're around $30 million for the project.