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CM200 and a ST-804A.

kc_hubbs

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We have a system where I work at, that allows equipment operators to shut down a belt line in the event of an emergency. One of the pieces of equipment has failed to shut down the belt line on a recent test. So, we are looking in to fixing the problem, as well install another system in a new piece of equipment. I wanted to try and do this myself, so i took a quick look today, and they is what I found..

1.) The equipment contains a Motorola Radius CP 200 (I have programming cables and software for this radio).

2.)The mic input has a Rj45 plug with only a jumper wire connecting pins 5 and 6.

3.) The connector on the back of the radio (16 pins), has 3 connections made. Counting from left to right, There is a wire on the top row in number 4, and on the bottom has connections to 3 and 4.

4.) mounted to the radio is a plastic box that has a keyswitch and a Normally Open Push Button, Also inside is a ST-804A encoder.

I havent had time to visit the other side of the wireless connection, but I will tomorrow. Can anyone help me on what I should read up on to set something like this up in a new piece of equipment, or can anyone offer a connection diagram, or any kind of help.

Thanks.
 
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Sounds like a fairly straight forward selective call decode setup.

So what happens, a stop button is pushed on the panel and it signals the encoder to key the radio and send either a DTMF or two-tone sequence. On the other end, you will have another radio. Depending on how the radio is setup (it may use an internal decoder or an external decoder) it will receive that tone sequence and provide an active output if it is the correct sequence. That active output will complete a circuit connected to the coil of a relay and will typically trigger a latch relay to open the power for the belt.

With most decode capable Motorola mobiles, you'd typically set the RX Personality to the ID format being used, set select-call receive personality to use the Horn/Lights output and then interface via that (pull postive voltage off either the radio power source or SWB+ going to one side of the coil and the other side going to the H/L output (which is active low and will complete the path to ground when active). There is also a way to just use the COR/Avtive Channel output as well but that typically requires using AND squelch logic.

External decoders operate very similarly but you would use the output of the decoder instead of the H/L or COR output of the radio for internal decode.
 

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ramal121

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If you are using DTMF, the CM200 already has the ability to encode this without the need to add on an external encoder. It would be set up as PTT ID using DTMF and you would just need to add the key switch (with or without the momentary push button) to the PTT pin on the back of the radio to set it off.

And as mentioned above, the far end can be set up as call alert which would toggle a kill relay which is hooked to the horn/lights pin on the back of the radio.

Not real complicated. Did something like this a long time ago on a gunite pump where the crew could shut the thing down with a portable should SHTF.
 

ramal121

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Also I'm not so sure the ST-804 is wired correctly. The correct way to identify pin numbers (that I use) is to look at the back of the connector (where the wires exit) and have the plastic tab on the bottom side facing you. Upper right is pin one and lower right is pin two. You count right to left first top (odd) and bottom (even) 'til you get to the left side with 15 on top and 16 on the bottom.

Confirm what wires you have connected to the encoder.
 
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If you are using DTMF, the CM200 already has the ability to encode this without the need to add on an external encoder. It would be set up as PTT ID using DTMF and you would just need to add the key switch (with or without the momentary push button) to the PTT pin on the back of the radio to set it off.

And as mentioned above, the far end can be set up as call alert which would toggle a kill relay which is hooked to the horn/lights pin on the back of the radio.

Not real complicated. Did something like this a long time ago on a gunite pump where the crew could shut the thing down with a portable should SHTF.
Not being familiar with the ST-804 and not finding detailed documentation on it upon my initial search, I assumed that it was configured for multi-call so various buttons on an HMI could send different bursts. Maybe I should open up a CM200 codeplug I have laying about to see if that is a function the GPIO can be programmed for and if so, perhaps the CM200 is a radio that replaced a previous setup such as 5 pin Maxtrac at some point.
 

kc_hubbs

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My apologies, the radio is a CM200, not a CP200.


Learning the pinout numbers for the connector, I believe the three wires are connected to 9, 10, and 12. I can double check today.

IS there any reading I can do that would help me learn this stuff and be able to hook this up myself? Or should I just hook the radio up to the software and see what settings I have ?
 
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My apologies, the radio is a CM200, not a CP200.


Learning the pinout numbers for the connector, I believe the three wires are connected to 9, 10, and 12. I can double check today.

IS there any reading I can do that would help me learn this stuff and be able to hook this up myself? Or should I just hook the radio up to the software and see what settings I have ?
You need to read the radio as a good amount of the pins are software definable so there is no telling exactly what they are set for.
 

kc_hubbs

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Thanks so much. Ill read the radio as soon as I can.

One thing that I cant seem to find an answer on though, is why does the RJ45 clip in the radio have 2 pins shorted together ? I believe they were pins 5 and 6.
 
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Thanks so much. Ill read the radio as soon as I can.

One thing that I cant seem to find an answer on though, is why does the RJ45 clip in the radio have 2 pins shorted together ? I believe they were pins 5 and 6.
To mimic a hung up microphone (tone squelch enabled). This is a feature that can be enabled/disabled on the Commercial and Professional series mobiles (its typically called "HUB Defeats PL"). This also leads me to believe there was likely a 16 pin Maxtrac or GM300 in place at one point as many of the signalling features your setup appears to be using were not present or as adaptable in the older gen radios like they were in the Commercial series. There was likely a radio failure and instead of taking the time to simplify and remove the additional points of failure (external DTMF encoder) the radio shop tech simply chose to go with a hot-swap solution and configure the new radio to the same setup as the old radio.
 
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Flat TX Audio (White/Green)
Gound (Black)
GPIO (Yellow)
SW B+ (Red)

My bet is the GPIO is programmed as PTT in an active high (sinking) configuration instead of the standard active low (sourcing) PTT ground already provided on the radio.
 

kc_hubbs

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Since we are down to only few pieces of equipment, would it be possible to reprogram everything to work without the external encoder ? I believe all of our radios are CM200 and PM400.

Here is a snippet of the Package/Pin Config
Clip of the Package/Pin Config
 

kc_hubbs

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If anyone can point me to some literature I can read to better understand this, it would be a big help.
 

ramal121

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Ok, so it looks like your encoder is hooked to flat transmit audio along with pin 8 programmed as data PTT that will use the flat audio input.

My question is, are you using an outboard DTMF decoder at the far end? The sibling to your encoder would be a ST-809 decoder. If that is the case then the receive audio needs to be programmed for flat (non de-emphasized audio) that comes from pin 11. The transmit audio and receive audio must match otherwise you'll introduce "twist" to your tones which would make the decode flaky or not work at all.

If decode is being done by the CM200 itself (no external board) then the transmit encoder is indeed connected improperly.

And yes you can accomplish the same thing using two radios without any external board.

Also looking at the encoder instructions the PTT input needs a pull-up resistor. If it floating erratic operation may be observed.
 

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kc_hubbs

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In researching the CM200 it doesn't appear to be cable of decoding a DTMF signal, only MDC and Quick-Call.

On the other end is a CM200 radio and a Norcomm Nc201-F decoder. I wasnt able to see how the pins were connected due to the radio being mounted tightly in a box.


I would very much like to redo all of this without the encoder / decoder. The CM200 will encode and decode MDC and Quick-Call II.
 
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