CN/IC Testing new narrow freqs

[INDY72]

Well we began testing out the new freqs on some of the system. This is all PRE liscencsing/implementation, just testing out the capabilities of the new ASTRO Spectra Loco radios. Quite impressive. We are going to run some digital testing with a yard loco and a rail truck soon just to see what they sound like. Security will be the first to fully get the ASTRO gear with the entire net upgrading afterwards. Full implementation is still 2 years off for the Southern Tier of operations. We have been told that some of CN's Northern ops are already upgrading to a combination analog/digital net, with full digital in some yards.

 

[erikTromatowski]

Whoa, what? Am I to belive that CN/IC is going digital/trunked? What? What happens whn theres forgein power, etc???

 

[hulka]

I did not see anything refering to Digital Trunking, just Digital. There has been lots of talk about the RR's going to digital systems in the near future here. So if you chase trains you will need a digital scanner soon.

 

[Chris-M]

When the RR industry starts to implement digital radio, with any luck it will be scannable (standard APCO25) so we can listen with a scanner!
MILF do you have any insight on this?

 

[Josh]

When the RR industry starts to implement digital radio, with any luck it will be scannable (standard APCO25) so we can listen with a scanner!
MILF do you have any insight on this?

Have you checked out the Astro Spectra clean-cab radio brochure?

The AAR adopted the IMBE codec as standard for their implementation of digital.

-Josh

 

[INDY72]

Yes its APCO-P-25 IMBE. Yes its already happening in several areas including in Alabamma.....

And yes its Conventional Digitial. There are a few Railcorps that are installing TRS's for thier yards.. And there is talk of at least one entire trackside TRS for non train usage. It will still be at least a couple of years before CN/IC in MS is fully digital..... CN/IC in LA on the other hand will be using some digital as soon as the LATIE plan is implememnted, after all CN/IC is one of the big backers of that progect! In LA CN/IC security will have both thier CN/IC issued HT's/Mobiles, and LATIE HT's. By 2008 We are expecting to be utilizing both analog and digital for coms in MS, and by 2012 fully digital except for interop with any Railcorps still analog. From what the KCS guys say.. They will be behind us by a year or so depending on funding. CSX, and NS are already on the transitional phases with digital in use on several tiers of thier trackage, and yards in Alabamma.

 

[erikTromatowski]

Hm, interesting. Esspecially considering how nothing in the Northern New Jersey is yet digital, and I haven't heard anything about anything around here going digital anytime soon. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Two years ago, BNSF and NS decided to modify their licenses so they can operate on analog and P-25, while they make the transition to the new technology. Moreover, the UP plans on being the first Class 1 system to implement P-25 conventional and trunking technology on all of their mainlines. However, with the slump in the economy, they may have put these plans on the back burner.

According to two short-line railroads here in the Midwest, they will wait and see what the Class 1 roads do before making the switchover to P-25 technology. For the smaller lines, P-25 radios cost a lot and they don't have the capital that larger roads do. Nonetheless, they too will be changing in the next few years.


73's

Ron

 

[N_Jay]

When the RR industry starts to implement digital radio, with any luck it will be scannable (standard APCO25) so we can listen with a scanner!
MILF do you have any insight on this?

Have you checked out the Astro Spectra clean-cab radio brochure?

The AAR adopted the IMBE codec as standard for their implementation of digital.

-Josh

Not just IMBE! AAR was an early participant in Project 25.

(Just me, on my soapbox about people taking shortcuts in protocol naming conventions) :wink: :evil:

 

[wwhitby]

Yes its APCO-P-25 IMBE. Yes its already happening in several areas including in Alabamma.....
--snip--
CSX, and NS are already on the transitional phases with digital in use on several tiers of thier trackage, and yards in Alabamma.

I listened to the digital frequencies that NS is using in the Birmingham, Alabama area again today. I suspect they're used at Norris Yard, but i'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, digital is used by the car knockers, signal department, and one other user that I can't remember. No road or dispatch frequencies, but my guess that will happen before the end of the decade. I bet there will be a massive switch from analog to digital, a la the switch to standard gauge in the South in the 1880's.

Reception of those digital frequencies and their quality is quite good - much better than the digital UHF and 800Mhz systems I listen to. I first started picking those Birmingham-area frequencies up around Gadsden, Alabama (40+ miles away), and I regularly listen to them in the Jemison, Alabama area (30+ miles away.)


Warren

 

[INDY72]

Actually expect the switch a LOT sooner than a decade,.. say within 5 years for the big boys..... Thier will still be a LOT of analog on the main line primary freqs to interact with the non digital smaller ops as they traverse trackage.... and I think AMTRAK is not going digital except thier security untill everyone else has finished transition. Everyone is playing with the narrowband now just to see what it sounds like on the new radios..

And yepper VHF digital is amazing.. much cleaner audio and reception is a lot tighter than analog ever hoped to be. The digital has a LOT less of a window on iether side, and this knocks interference to almost nil.

Now if I can afford say a 2096 to go trainspotting with when transition is completed....

 

[wwhitby]

I wonder if the FRA will just step in and mandate digital for everyone to use?

I hope that as digital modulation becomes more widespread, the cost of digital radios and scaners will go down.

Warren

 

[wwhitby]

I wonder if the FRA will just step in and mandate digital for everyone to use?

I hope that as digital modulation becomes more widespread, the cost of digital radios and scaners will go down.

Warren

Sorry about the double post - i'm still trying to figure out what happened......

 

[dkouz]

However, with the slump in the economy, they may have put these plans on the back burner.

What? Where have you been? Last year had record car loadings. aka: more & longer trains, more new car orders, and more overall volume.

As far as going P25, I am very concerned as to when this will happen. My operation here is a museum and we already have enough projects to spend $ on. We would need to be P25 to be interoperatable as we do some interchange with and on Norfolk Southern.

 

[wwhitby]

Hey milf: unless you want all the bells and whistles (pun intended ) of a digital scanner or the local LEOs go digital, i'd hold off as long as I can. Not only will next generation digital scanners come out, but i'm hoping that they will be cheaper. If it was me, i'd buy one when the road and dispatch frequencies go digital.

Also, the 2012 date you posted coincides with the date that i've heard the Federal Government wants all its agencies to be 100% digital.

 

[INDY72]

Yep 2012 is the mandated narrowband digital ready deadline for Feds. This is also the deadline for TV to clear 700 MHz... And is suggessted for all non fed PS to have narrowband and or digital capablity. This was set in motion several years ago. A lot of folks naysay this and say thier is no mandate.. umm guys.. there is. Its not just a FCC/APCO mandate for narrowbanding.. its also that you must have a system that can be digital ready too. Anyway back to RR comms.... And since a LOT of local stuff around me is going digital.... I need a digital scanner ASAP.... Three TRS's - Hinds County, MS-digital and analog, Ridgeland, MS- digital, Madison, MS- going digital.... Plus the possibility of the Rankin County, MS system getting upgraded to mixed mode.... TSA-digital, All the local fed stuff-digital. Of course there is also the one analog agency on TRS that is about to go digital that I won't be able to hear,....they will be Provoice EDACS..

 

[Guest]

I got the chance to check out one of the new digital radios on a train run by NS. My buddy works for them and was showing me one day. Looks like it was a remote mount of some kind, same front panel as the old one-piece radios but had a solid rear panel with one connector leading away from it. It was only about 3 or four inches deep and was screwed into the control panel from the front instead of the bracket system inside the panel the old ones used. My buddy didn't know if there was more to it or not. I told him there was more but he had no idea what it looked like or where it was. Being lucky to even get to check out the cab to begin with I wasn't going to push my luck. What i'm wondering is though, are they all going to be remote mount like this one and if so do they use standard Spectra drawer units with SP firmware? It would be neat to order a railroad control head and firmware and use it with a standard Spectra haha.

Here's a pic:

 

[Thunderbolt]

I listened to the digital frequencies that NS is using in the Birmingham, Alabama area again today. I suspect they're used at Norris Yard, but i'm not 100% sure.
Warren

You are correct. Birmingham's Norris Yard was the initial test bed for NS's P-25 program, when they first purchased digital radios a few years ago.

73's

Ron

 

[Thunderbolt]

However, with the slump in the economy, they may have put these plans on the back burner.

What? Where have you been? Last year had record car loadings. aka: more & longer trains, more new car orders, and more overall volume.

That was based on what I was told by the head of the PR Dept. at U.P. However, the statistics that you mentioned don't really support his statement.

 

[wa8pyr]

I wonder if the FRA will just step in and mandate digital for everyone to use?

I hope that as digital modulation becomes more widespread, the cost of digital radios and scaners will go down.

I hope that too; even so, I still have a BC250D, Pro96 and Pro2096....

As far as the FRA, according to everything I've heard when meeting with them, they cannot mandate digital for communications; that's purely an internal decision by the railroads. The FRA can only mandate safety-related issues, and digital vs. analog doesn't count. In fact, IIRC they have not mandated that the railroads even use radio; the railroads can use telegraph, induction phones, hand, light or flag signals, etc. In fact, they do use several of these to this day instead of radio, especially on short lines. It doesn't particularly matter as long as operations are carried out safely.

The FCC, on the other hand, is a different matter. However, they too are not mandating digital vs. analog, only narrow band. The Federal mandate came from the NTIA and only applies to Federal frequencies and radio systems.

Tom WA8PYR