Collin County P25

[mwjones]

Just submitted 17 new talkgroups to RRDB, so a productive day (at its peak, over 300 radios were affiliated with the site at one time). Dispatchers were reporting that they are going to continue monitoring the analog system for about a month, so there may still be traffic on there for a few weeks (I know the jail hasn't migrated over except for the Juvenile detention facility, and there's likely others).

Princeton Fire was the oddball, the alerts are on 1276, but they appear to be operating on 1279. Everybody else was first channel alerting, operations on the second channel.

Now to turn off recording on the dispatch channels - I recorded close to 5,000 radio transmissions on the site today.

 

[mikebennett]

I got an email that we switched to the digital network and I turned on my scanner. I have a Whistler TRX-2 and heard nothing so I turned on my SO radio and heard the traffic. I noticed looking at the programming of the scanner that when the control channels were downloaded from this site it only put in the 700 control channels. I had to manually add the 800control channels to the program and upload to the scanner. Working like a champ. Not sure if others might have the same issue.

I put in ALL the 800 & 700 Freq's and I'm not picking up anything. I have this programmed in as a P25 Standard. I have a county radio also and I'm getting everything on it. I have a UNIDEN BCD325P2.

 

[mikebennett]

I put in ALL the 800 & 700 Freq's and I'm not picking up anything. I have this programmed in as a P25 Standard. I have a county radio also and I'm getting everything on it. I have a UNIDEN BCD325P2.

I figured it out. I'm apparently getting some interference on the 774.70625 CC. The signal is fluctuating from 0 to 5 and it's not locking on well. I'm twenty-something miles from the transmitter as well. Hopefully it will improve when the CC rotates and/or when I change locations.

The "high dollar" county radio obviously has no problem.

 

[mwjones]

I figured it out. I'm apparently getting some interference on the 774.70625 CC. The signal is fluctuating from 0 to 5 and it's not locking on well. I'm twenty-something miles from the transmitter as well. Hopefully it will improve when the CC rotates and/or when I change locations.

The "high dollar" county radio obviously has no problem.

The problem you're experiencing is likely related to the simulcast of the system. Since there are 9 towers (including one near Celina and another near Anna) all broadcasting on the same frequency, by the time your scanner receives all of those signals, they are slightly out of sync with one another, and the scanner doesn't like it. Only the Uniden SDS100/200 have the ability to filter it out and work properly.

While my SDR Radio on the computer deals with simulcast very well (I'm halfway between the West McKinney site and the Frisco PD site so I have Simulcast issues here as well), I still see it show up in the logs at times. When the sites broadcast their FCC License ID at 15 and 45 minutes past the hour, I will sometimes see the same ID come across multiple times, only a second or two apart - the SDR Radio software doesn't catch the short transmissions are repeats, and will show them all in the console.

I have been monitoring the system since it first came online last July, and the only time it has moved off the 774.70625 was when they did failover testing a few months ago. Otherwise it has stayed put. So you may be waiting for the Control Channel to move for a long time.

 

[mikebennett]

The problem you're experiencing is likely related to the simulcast of the system. Since there are 9 towers (including one near Celina and another near Anna) all broadcasting on the same frequency, by the time your scanner receives all of those signals, they are slightly out of sync with one another, and the scanner doesn't like it. Only the Uniden SDS100/200 have the ability to filter it out and work properly.

While my SDR Radio on the computer deals with simulcast very well (I'm halfway between the West McKinney site and the Frisco PD site so I have Simulcast issues here as well), I still see it show up in the logs at times. When the sites broadcast their FCC License ID at 15 and 45 minutes past the hour, I will sometimes see the same ID come across multiple times, only a second or two apart - the SDR Radio software doesn't catch the short transmissions are repeats, and will show them all in the console.

I have been monitoring the system since it first came online last July, and the only time it has moved off the 774.70625 was when they did failover testing a few months ago. Otherwise it has stayed put. So you may be waiting for the Control Channel to move for a long time.

You're probably right about that. Thanks.

 

[N5ODE]

The problem you're experiencing is likely related to the simulcast of the system. Since there are 9 towers (including one near Celina and another near Anna) all broadcasting on the same frequency, by the time your scanner receives all of those signals, they are slightly out of sync with one another, and the scanner doesn't like it. Only the Uniden SDS100/200 have the ability to filter it out and work properly.

While my SDR Radio on the computer deals with simulcast very well (I'm halfway between the West McKinney site and the Frisco PD site so I have Simulcast issues here as well), I still see it show up in the logs at times. When the sites broadcast their FCC License ID at 15 and 45 minutes past the hour, I will sometimes see the same ID come across multiple times, only a second or two apart - the SDR Radio software doesn't catch the short transmissions are repeats, and will show them all in the console.

I have been monitoring the system since it first came online last July, and the only time it has moved off the 774.70625 was when they did failover testing a few months ago. Otherwise it has stayed put. So you may be waiting for the Control Channel to move for a long time.

I am having the same issues just south of the Anna tower and east of the Wilmeth tower. While waiting on the SDS100 to come back in stock, I have an RTL-SDR arriving tomorrow. Is there an SDR recipe (software)
you like best?

 

[mwjones]

I am having the same issues just south of the Anna tower and east of the Wilmeth tower. While waiting on the SDS100 to come back in stock, I have an RTL-SDR arriving tomorrow. Is there an SDR recipe (software)
you like best?

I use two. SDRTrunk, mainly because it can record multiple conversations at once (with 2 SDR radios I can record everything on the Collin County system), and DSDPlus (I paid for the FastLane version) for the better logging (and its support of DMR/NXDN systems). Of course it also helps I'm up to 6 RTL-SDR radios.

More information on both can be found in the WIKI: Trunked Radio Decoders - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[N5ODE]

I use two. SDRTrunk, mainly because it can record multiple conversations at once (with 2 SDR radios I can record everything on the Collin County system), and DSDPlus (I paid for the FastLane version) for the better logging (and its support of DMR/NXDN systems). Of course it also helps I'm up to 6 RTL-SDR radios.

More information on both can be found in the WIKI: Trunked Radio Decoders - The RadioReference Wiki

Thanks! This helps a lot!

 

[rattlerbb01]

I am having the same issues just south of the Anna tower and east of the Wilmeth tower. While waiting on the SDS100 to come back in stock, I have an RTL-SDR arriving tomorrow. Is there an SDR recipe (software)
you like best?

Amazon and eBay have been out of stock for a while, but I picked mine up with no delay the other day from Bearcat Warehouse. Whereas I could barely get any transmissions to come through within the city limits of Shreveport on the new P25 P2 simulcast with the BCD436HP, the SDS100 is flawless on the same system right out of the box. It’ll make a huge difference for simulcast.

 

[riverradio68]

The new system really sucks on the TRX-2, even with just the 700 simulcast. Especially in outlying areas. However at Denny's McKinney Thursday evening it worked okay. PCT-1 Constables all say it's horrible and that's on Moto radios. Haven't tried it on the 536 yet.

Range wise, the Legacy 800 was hearable to Honey Grove but the 700 I can't really hear till between Wolfe City and Bailey TX or West of Greenville. And nothing in the Sherman area. I get the DPS Tollway trooper system very clear up to Denison, Bonham and in Greenville. I guess it's time to get a bank loan and buy me an SDS.

 

[Russell]

As with most new simulcast systems, the signals are "steered" into the coverage area (downward tilt, etc.) Outside the county the signal will be diminished. Bad coverage areas within the intended area should eventually be addressed.

 

[mwjones]

As with most new simulcast systems, the signals are "steered" into the coverage area (downward tilt, etc.) Outside the county the signal will be diminished. Bad coverage areas within the intended area should eventually be addressed.

I'd have to look back in this thread, but at one point early in testing, one of the radio techs was able to use a radio all the way from the West side of DFW Airport. Likewise, last fall I endured a couple of weeks of "can you hear me now" type testing as they drove all over the county (even from a boat on Lake Lavon), not to mention visiting several locations where they had coverage problems on the analog system (even like the basement of the jail, courthouse, etc.) All said, you're probably right as far as tuning the coverage, but the Constables may be over exaggerating things based on past experience as well (oh its bad in this one little area so we're going to condemn the whole thing).

I'm sure the radio techs are taking the feedback and investigating.

 

[hiegtx]

I'd have to look back in this thread, but at one point early in testing, one of the radio techs was able to use a radio all the way from the West side of DFW Airport. Likewise, last fall I endured a couple of weeks of "can you hear me now" type testing as they drove all over the county (even from a boat on Lake Lavon), not to mention visiting several locations where they had coverage problems on the analog system (even like the basement of the jail, courthouse, etc.) All said, you're probably right as far as tuning the coverage, but the Constables may be over exaggerating things based on past experience as well (oh its bad in this one little area so we're going to condemn the whole thing).

I'm sure the radio techs are taking the feedback and investigating.

Grand Prairie really "tuned" their system when they converted from their old Moto Type II to a P25 Phase II layer of FWRRS. Before the conversion, I had no problem hearing GP, and generally Arlington as well (before they also moved to FWRRS & Phase II). Once they threw the switch, I lost both. I'm maybe 5 miles from the Grand Prairie city limits, but can't hear them at all. Not too long after the switch, I had the occasion to visit a business in Grand Prairie. No problem hearing them when in the city limits. But coming back home, I lost them (on one of my 436HPs) as I went east on Davis into Dallas & reached the Cockrell Hill Rd & Davis intersection along the top of Chalk Hill. That's probably a couple of miles outside the city limits of GP.

 

[riverradio68]

but the Constables may be over exaggerating things based on past experience as well (oh its bad in this one little area so we're going to condemn the whole thing).

You make a good point considering its a new, digital system and most of those guys are used to the Grayson/Fannin conventional P25. Some of the VFD's have also complained.

I drove FM-1827 (New Hope/Altoga Rd.) yesterday down to MCM and while there were some bad spots, the overall quality was much better than in the outlying areas.

My antenna could be an issue too so I ordered the Larsen VHF/UHF/700 Tri bander to see if that might help. We'll see. Ultimately I will be buying a SDS with coronabux soon.

 

[mikebennett]

You make a good point considering its a new, digital system and most of those guys are used to the Grayson/Fannin conventional P25. Some of the VFD's have also complained.

I drove FM-1827 (New Hope/Altoga Rd.) yesterday down to MCM and while there were some bad spots, the overall quality was much better than in the outlying areas.

My antenna could be an issue too so I ordered the Larsen VHF/UHF/700 Tri bander to see if that might help. We'll see. Ultimately I will be buying a SDS with coronabux soon.

I've been monitoring mobile from Sherman to McKinney and so far I'm getting about 10% of the transmissions. This is on a BCD353P2 using the Larsen tri-band (Best tri-band mobile antenna ever made! I even have one on my bicycle)

I'm probably going to upgrade to a SDS100 as well.

 

[riverradio68]

On your Bicycle? That's impressive! Mine will be here this week, I am using the V/U/800 by Larsen currently and I have noticed it does not perform well with 700, Hope the upgrade makes a difference.

BTW MWJ, Thanks for taking the lead on the new Collin stuff. Great work!

 

[Russell]

Best antenna ever! I have three.

 

[mikebennett]

On your Bicycle? That's impressive! Mine will be here this week, I am using the V/U/800 by Larsen currently and I have noticed it does not perform well with 700, Hope the upgrade makes a difference.

 

[mwjones]

BTW MWJ, Thanks for taking the lead on the new Collin stuff. Great work!

It's actually been fun. After being out of the hobby for a few years, this pandemic and sitting at home drove me back into it. Had to upgrade all the gear (the old BCD396 and 996 just weren't going to cut it since they aren't Phase 2). I then jumped head first into SDR, so monitoring this system and using the testing period to cut my teeth on the SDR tools and stuff actually was a great experience.

In fact, since the system went live last week, I've got a few more groups that I'm trying to validate - for example most of the Fire Departments have their "fireground" channel like they had on the analog system (and some now have more than one), but also have an "ops" channel, although only a few departments have used it yet. Most PD's also have multiple channels, with Melissa even having an Encrypted one (I know its Melissa because its next to a non-encrypted channel they used and the same radios were affiliating with both).

And then there's the Jail and at least one or two other agencies that haven't moved over yet, so we're not done yet (I originally logged 160 or so talkgroups that had radio affiliation during testing, so we're barely scratching the surface of what's been identified with only 46 so far)

Other statistics:

• Max number of talkpaths active at once - 7 (compared to the old system with 5, this new system has a lot of breathing room with up to 14 Phase 2 conversations at once)
• Max number of radios affiliated at once - 310 (and over 150 when I saw that were on the CCSO Dispatch 1 talkgroup)
• Number of dispatch consoles - 8
• Wylie FD/EMS does mutual aid for Lavon, so Wylie Ops 3 is frequently patched to Lavon Fire, and the Wylie Dispatcher can be heard as well

 

[KI5IRE]

Curious if @BenScan has done this on one of his bikes yet.

On a side note, I don't know if you've thought about it, but it would be pretty cool to see a post about your bike setup at some point. Very interesting.