Comet DS150S Discone Antenna

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zz0468

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...RG6 Quad has about a 8-10dB loss at 50 feet.

This is wrong. At 800 MHz, the loss is approximately 8db for 100 feet, making the 50 foot loss more in the realm of 4 db.

Also, beware of the noise figure for in-line bullet amplifiers like that in the link. That one has a noise figure of 4 db. That's a very mediocre amplifier. Unless the NF is less than that of the scanner and all the additive losses between it and the antenna, it will actually harm, not enhance weak signal reception. The symptom would be strong signals are stronger, and weak signals are no longer heard.
 
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LtDoc

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Oklahoma
That "line of sight" thingy is a tricky idea to get your mind wrapped around. It isn't very simple depending on the range of frequencies being talked about. A 'close' analogy is light, but it's only close, not exact. There is a big difference between seeing the light source, and seeing the 'glow' from that light source, they are not the same thing. VHF can handle a strong 'glow' as a signal source, but not very well. If the light source is below the horizon then the signal will be marginal. At UHF that 'glow' is useless, you have to see the light source. So there's typically no reception without seeing the light source.
The lower the frequency the more 'reflection' is provided by the various layers of the ionosphere, the signal can bounce between the ionosphere and the earth like between two imperfect mirrors. That bounce or 'skip' is more pronounced at HF than at VHF or UHF.
There's a huge amount of 'skootch' in all that ('skootch' is scientific term for variations). 'Momma Nature' is the one controlling propagation, we have no control at all. If you can ever figure a way to make 'Momma Nature' happy so 'she' doesn't forget about good propagation, would you please tell me!
- 'Doc

(None of the above is even close to being an adequate or scientific explanation, but it's 'close enough' to get an idea of possible range of reception with almost any antenna/receiver.)
 

tomasG

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152
Location
Lancaster, CA
Yes I misspoke on the line loss of RG6 Quad. It is < 4dB per 50 feet. Too many calculators open at once and they all have different numbers. One tells me the loss per 100 feet at 860 is 21dB. Not!

But as for the inline amps with a 4dB NF, you hardly notice it. The NF is also across the range of 5-950MHz. They are cheap preamps. Without one I cannot hear the San Bernardino County Victorville trunked system. With one I can very nicely. MilAir also comes up nicely as does 470 simplex. It also improves LASD in Santa Clarita when they go to talk-around. Heck, if you want to get silly buy a BHI or Clear Speech DSP noise filter for CW/SSB and put it on position 1-2 on FM. You'll add about 10-20dB of additional signal/noise ratio. We added one to our 2 meter FM repeater as a test and dammit if it didn't work.

Think outside of the box. Or spend lots of money.

The amp is intended to be inexpensive but effective. If you'd like to go to Stridsberg you'll find a 20dB preamp for $170 plus another $105 for the bias-t. The most effective place to place the Stridsberg is at the antenna which means a NEMA enclosure as well. Give the MCM a try and you'll be sold. It basically makes up for line loss. You may also go to Advanced Research and get single band preamps as well. But if you look at the specs on a favorite scanner parts site you'll find >3dB NF's on the white label AOR preamps. The MCM is $14 plus a power supply. That's Starbucks for a couople of days. ZZ, give me an address and I'll mail you one.
 

zz0468

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But as for the inline amps with a 4dB NF, you hardly notice it...

The thing to watch for with these things is how and where you install it. The typical scanner has a noise figure in the range of about 6 db (I've measured some), so it CAN create some improvement. But if it's got 2 db of feedline loss in front of it, it's a wash, and may cause overload problems. Put it on the other end of that 2 db lossy feedline, and you've made a 4 db over all improvement in the receive system's noise figure.

If it goes in front of a higher quality receiver, however, it WILL degrade that receiver's performance. It''s those pesky laws of physics getting in the way.

The NF is also across the range of 5-950MHz. They are cheap preamps. Without one I cannot hear the San Bernardino County Victorville trunked system. With one I can very nicely.

Do you run a filter of any sort in front of it? That kind of wide BW is begging for some sort of out of band signal, like FM broadcast, to slam it into compression.

Heck, if you want to get silly buy a BHI or Clear Speech DSP noise filter for CW/SSB and put it on position 1-2 on FM. You'll add about 10-20dB of additional signal/noise ratio. We added one to our 2 meter FM repeater as a test and dammit if it didn't work.

They work, but I don't like the mechanical quality that they add to voice. I use an SGC DSP speaker for weak signal SSB work, and they're quite helpful. But for FM, I prefer to improve actual RF performance as much as I can.

Think outside of the box. Or spend lots of money. The MCM is $14 plus a power supply. That's Starbucks for a couople of days.

It IS cost effective, for the level of performance it offers. No arguement there. I'm one of those guys who would spend $250 for a .2db NF, though... especially if I can get it with a 40dbm IP3. That's the difference between .5 uv and .25 uv. It may not seem like a lot, but in a side by side comparison, it can stand out. It all depends on what your needs are, and abilities to pay for performance.

ZZ, give me an address and I'll mail you one.

LOL... thanks, but not necessary. I'm pretty dang happy with my RX performance.
 
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tomasG

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Messages
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Location
Lancaster, CA
The thing to watch for with these things is how and where you install it. The typical scanner has a noise figure in the range of about 6 db (I've measured some), so it CAN create some improvement. But if it's got 2 db of feedline loss in front of it, it's a wash, and may cause overload problems. Put it on the other end of that 2 db lossy feedline, and you've made a 4 db over all improvement in the receive system's noise figure.

If it goes in front of a higher quality receiver, however, it WILL degrade that receiver's performance. It''s those pesky laws of physics getting in the way.

Do you run a filter of any sort in front of it? That kind of wide BW is begging for some sort of out of band signal, like FM broadcast, to slam it into compression.

They work, but I don't like the mechanical quality that they add to voice. I use an SGC DSP speaker for weak signal SSB work, and they're quite helpful. But for FM, I prefer to improve actual RF performance as much as I can.

It IS cost effective, for the level of performance it offers. No arguement there. I'm one of those guys who would spend $250 for a .2db NF, though... especially if I can get it with a 40dbm IP3. That's the difference between .5 uv and .25 uv. It may not seem like a lot, but in a side by side comparison, it can stand out. It all depends on what your needs are, and abilities to pay for performance.

LOL... thanks, but not necessary. I'm pretty dang happy with my RX performance.

You've made my points for me. The inline amp goes at the antenna before the line loss. By the time it gets to the receiver it's got just enough to partially overcome the NF of the scanner. And that's what we're talking about -- scanners. Nothing I say applies to weak signal work using quality receivers.

I followed the advice from someone on another site and put up a low band, a VHF, and a UHF antenna. They all feed a Diamond triplexer (MX2000). The inline amp is at the output of the triplexer where it then goes down the RG6 Quad and into a PAR 152HT paging intermod filter. At the end of the RG6 Quad is a 20dB variable attenuator that is used to dial the noise floor away (NF). I look for example at the problem band - VHF - and see 1-2 bars of noise. I turn the attenuator until I have zero bars. If I see that I need 3dB of attenuation I remove the variable and put in a fixed attenuator of 3, 6 or 12dB. I should say that those are the ranges I have and I've never needed more than 3dB.

So yes, I have three tuned ports. I would venture to say that cumulative loss allows this to work and ends up probably with zero gain at the input of the scanner compared to loss without the MCM. It sucks to put up a 6dB stick only to get unity gain.

It ain't perfect but it works and it works well. Kern FD had a large brusher today and I was able to hear the simplex tactical just fine. No single antenna served my needs so I use separate antennas and the MCM's. The MCM needs nothing on 800. It does just great. No control channel one minute; add 10dB and I can lock on the CC.
 

tomasG

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Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
152
Location
Lancaster, CA
I ran a test today while up at the cabin. Using a mag-mount antenna I could not decode Riverside SO. They seem tough to begin with outside of the county. The RSSI's using a Uniden 796D were < 80. I switched to dome antenna that I tacked to the ceiling and the RSSI's went >100 with some decode using 25 feet of RG6 Quad. I added the MCM inline amplifier midway between the antenna and the 796D and the RSSI's jumped up to ~160 with decode on most systems. Once my probationary period is over I'll be moving out to San Bernardino and hope to find a place on a hill short of the mountains. THEN I can play!

These numbers speak for themselves:

FREQ RSSI TAG AGENCY GROUP BANK
866.2125 73 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.2625 70 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.7625 74 FM RSO RSO WEST
867.7125 105 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.2125 122 FM RSO RSO WEST
867.2625 90 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.2625 93 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.7125 110 FM RSO RSO WEST
867.7875 73 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.3125 124 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
866.8125 106 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.3125 127 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
868.3125 120 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.8125 70 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.7625 73 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
868.3125 106 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
866.8125 104 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.3125 82 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.8125 120 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
867.3125 87 FM RSO RSO CENTRAL
866.2125 70 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.2625 102 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.2125 128 FM RSO RSO WEST
866.2625 65 FM RSO RSO WEST
867.2125 131 FM RSO RSO WEST
867.7125 98 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.2625 72 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.7125 135 FM RSO RSO WEST
868.7125 118 FM EDCS ID:0 "4-143 RSO WEST
867.7375 126 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 129 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 135 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 140 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
866.2375 143 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 134 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
866.7875 122 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
867.7375 141 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
866.7875 122 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
867.2875 134 FM Cross County Bac RERSIDE
866.2375 144 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
866.7375 137 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 142 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
867.7375 133 FM Temecula Primary RIVERSIDE SO
866.7375 143 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RIVERSIDE SO
867.7375 162 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 164 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
866.2375 166 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
868.2375 158 FM Cross County Bac RIVERSIDE SO
868.8125 132 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.3125 155 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.3125 170 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.3125 169 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.8125 155 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.7375 152 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.3125 158 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.8125 126 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.3125 149 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.8125 147 FM Cross County Bac RSO CENTRAL
867.8125 155 FM Cross County Bac RSO CENTRAL
866.2375 158 FM Cabazon Primary RSO DESERT
867.7375 180 FM Cabazon Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 167 FM Cabazon Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 164 FM Cabazon Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 172 FM Cabazon Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.8125 151 FM Cross County Bac RSO CENTRAL
868.2375 163 FM Cabazon Primary RSO DESERT
867.2875 159 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 169 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 154 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7375 169 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 143 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.2375 150 FM Temecula Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 162 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 146 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 154 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7625 152 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.2375 165 FM Temecula Primary RSO DESERT
867.2375 164 FM Temecula Primary RSO DESERT
866.7875 157 FM Cabazon Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 176 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 161 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7375 156 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.2375 174 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.7375 169 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.7375 168 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.2375 168 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.2875 151 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 156 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 161 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 175 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2875 160 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 170 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 157 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.2375 168 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 155 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO DESERT
866.3125 164 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.7375 171 FM Temecula Primary RSO DESERT
866.2375 175 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 156 FM Cabazon Primary RSO DESERT
866.2125 158 FM Cross County Bac RSO WEST
866.7125 155 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO WEST
867.8125 142 FM Cross County Bac RSO CENTRAL
867.7625 165 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.8125 166 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.3125 134 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.7125 135 FM Perris Primary RSO BLYTHE
868.3125 140 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.8125 154 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.8125 154 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.2875 162 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.2375 177 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.8125 154 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
867.7625 155 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.2375 175 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO DESERT
866.7375 157 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
867.7375 167 FM Temecula Primary RSO DESERT
866.2375 164 FM Temecula Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7375 169 FM Temecula Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 175 FM Temecula Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 158 FM Temecula Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
866.2375 167 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 170 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 160 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
866.2125 166 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO WEST
867.2375 169 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO DESERT
867.7375 173 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO DESERT
866.7875 140 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7375 169 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 176 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 173 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 142 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 165 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2375 161 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7875 167 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO SOUTHWEST
866.7375 162 FM Perris Primary RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7375 172 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO SOUTHWEST
868.2125 147 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO WEST
867.7625 156 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.7375 152 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2375 156 FM Cross County Bac RSO SOUTHWEST
867.2625 145 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO WEST
866.7625 130 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO WEST
866.7625 141 FM Jurupa Primary RSO WEST
866.7875 159 FM Lake Elsinore Pr RSO SOUTHWEST
867.7625 146 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
868.8125 153 FM Moreno Valley Pr RSO CENTRAL
866.2375 164 FM Cross County Bac RSO DESERT
866.2125 170 FM Cross County Bac RSO WEST
866.7125 131 FM Cross County Bac RSO WEST
867.7125 148 FM Cross County Bac RSO WEST
868.2125 151 FM Cross County Bac RSO WEST
866.2625 151 FM Moreno Valley Ar RSO WEST
866.2625 166 FM Moreno Valley Ar RSO WEST
 

zz0468

QRT
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Messages
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...Once my probationary period is over I'll be moving out to San Bernardino and hope to find a place on a hill short of the mountains. THEN I can play!

What position did you get hired for?
 

Daniel_Boone

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Messages
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Location
The mountains of Pennsylvania
I think that TomasG needs to specify which coax he is talking about when he says that the coax would have 8db of loss @800 mhz.

I have Quad Shield RG 6 here that is sweep tested that will do much better then that.

Now to go on attacking other peoples posts.
ThomasG sez - he put the amplifier half way between the antenna and the receiver.
We guess what - loss starts at the end of the terminal connector on the bottom of the antenna.
The funny thing about loss is - once you loose something, there is no way to get it back.
So in reality all you increased was the line level, not the actual amount of signal present.
The truth be told, the amount of signal present is still the same, the only thing that was changed was the line level.
The bad thing about amplifiers is that they also amplify the noise and they make a little bit of their own noise.

As far as smoke goes - radio waves acts a lot like light waves - and when there is a large fire or Forrest fire, the smoke will actually block the radio waves.
They had that problem a couple of years ago when there was a large fire in California - near Mt Wilson that almost took out most of the communications of that area.
Fortunately some radio and television stations also has back up repeaters / transmitters near San Dimas...

Now to compare California to Pennsylvania.
You need to understand that we have large forests in Pennsylvania and the moisture in the leaves, compounded by the difference in terrain and the fact that elevation changes here by the mile when you travel north - there is no way for Simplex to travel more then 20 miles in any one direction.

By comparison - I can drive one mile down the road and loose XM radio in my vehicle - because the hills are so steep and the tree canopy is so dense that you do not have a clear sky in the direction of the satellites. This scenario goes on all the time while you drive down the road.
And to put it in perspective - when you get near a large body of water such as a lake or a ocean - your radio path will increase - especially if the body of water is salt water / salenic.

So trying to compare radio waves that has to travel through dense forest and over land that is of uneven terrain to someplace that is as flat as a pancake and devoid of all vegetation - other then what has been planted would be like trying to compare chicken noodle soup to gumbo.

VHF does not need much if any amplification because the amount of line loss is so small - insignificant that amplification does not help it any if at all.
There would be more to gain by using twin lead or ladder line then using coaxial cable if all you wanted to do was listen to VHF...
 
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
23
Location
Encino, CA
I think that TomasG needs to specify which coax he is talking about when he says that the coax would have 8db of loss @800 mhz.

I have Quad Shield RG 6 here that is sweep tested that will do much better then that.

Now to go on attacking other peoples posts.
ThomasG sez - he put the amplifier half way between the antenna and the receiver.
We guess what - loss starts at the end of the terminal connector on the bottom of the antenna.
The funny thing about loss is - once you loose something, there is no way to get it back.
So in reality all you increased was the line level, not the actual amount of signal present.
The truth be told, the amount of signal present is still the same, the only thing that was changed was the line level.
The bad thing about amplifiers is that they also amplify the noise and they make a little bit of their own noise.

As far as smoke goes - radio waves acts a lot like light waves - and when there is a large fire or Forrest fire, the smoke will actually block the radio waves.
They had that problem a couple of years ago when there was a large fire in California - near Mt Wilson that almost took out most of the communications of that area.
Fortunately some radio and television stations also has back up repeaters / transmitters near San Dimas...

Now to compare California to Pennsylvania.
You need to understand that we have large forests in Pennsylvania and the moisture in the leaves, compounded by the difference in terrain and the fact that elevation changes here by the mile when you travel north - there is no way for Simplex to travel more then 20 miles in any one direction.

By comparison - I can drive one mile down the road and loose XM radio in my vehicle - because the hills are so steep and the tree canopy is so dense that you do not have a clear sky in the direction of the satellites. This scenario goes on all the time while you drive down the road.
And to put it in perspective - when you get near a large body of water such as a lake or a ocean - your radio path will increase - especially if the body of water is salt water / salenic.

So trying to compare radio waves that has to travel through dense forest and over land that is of uneven terrain to someplace that is as flat as a pancake and devoid of all vegetation - other then what has been planted would be like trying to compare chicken noodle soup to gumbo.

VHF does not need much if any amplification because the amount of line loss is so small - insignificant that amplification does not help it any if at all.
There would be more to gain by using twin lead or ladder line then using coaxial cable if all you wanted to do was listen to VHF...

Boy am I on the wrong site! I'd heard good and bad about this place and now I am reading a user that openly wishes to attack another user because he has cable with slighly less loss. I read an experiment was conducted and positive results revealed. What is there to attack? And why? Sheez.
 

tomasG

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
152
Location
Lancaster, CA
I think that TomasG needs to specify which coax he is talking about when he says that the coax would have 8db of loss @800 mhz. [870MHz if we are being EXACT]

I have Quad Shield RG 6 here that is sweep tested that will do much better then that. [What did you pay for it and who makes it?]

Now to go on attacking other peoples posts. ThomasG sez - he put the amplifier half way between the antenna and the receiver.

Well guess what - loss starts at the end of the terminal connector on the bottom of the antenna. [Really? What an odd place to start losing signal strength. I thought for sure their would be less signal at the end of the coaxial cable run caused by the cable.]

Mr. Boone,

I am not sure why you feel the need to attack an experiment, especially one that worked, has value, and is supported by facts. Had you noted the details we were discussing 800MHz and smoke from a fire was never part of then discussion. Even so research shows that ionization caused by the flames in a fire only decrease signal strength in the neighborhood of 0.054dbm on VHF.

Do you really feel a strong need to argue over maybe 1dB difference between cable manufacturers? Should I have taken the outside temperature and humidity before running the test? That's petty and you're just looking for a needless fight. If you'd like to argue over 1dB and my Icom R-9500 working EME then I'll agree about 1dB being important and I'd be using hardline and not CATV cable. But these are freakin' scanners. We're supposed to be helping scanner listeners improve their listening installations on a budget.

Part I of my experiment was done in the dark and the cold. I didn't feel like traveling outside. Damn, the wind was howling!!! Part II of my experiment was taking an 8 element 800MHz yagi and adding the MCM inline amplifier directly at the antenna. Before adding the amp the RSSI's were 130-170. Usable but scratchy. After adding the MCM the RSSI's were >200-215. Rock solid copy of the EDACS system from more than 50 miles away through dense foliage, thick fog (a cloud actually), rain and some snow. As the weather got worse the numbers dropped just under 200.

The bottom line is that it worked. On a scanner. Isn't this site about scanners and the tricks that work? You can't argue with the results of my testing so you just create an ad hominum attack on me personally. And you did so with the intent to attack. Shame on you.

Conclusion: Ladies and Gentlemen, if you'd like to boost your 800MHz reception MCM or radio Shack sell a simple inline amplifier that works great!
 

zz0468

QRT
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Messages
6,034
Conclusion: Ladies and Gentlemen, if you'd like to boost your 800MHz reception MCM or radio Shack sell a simple inline amplifier that works great!

Just remember, it's the noise figure that is the real determining factor in what will actually help, or hurt, a receiver. In TomasG's case, a 4db NF was sufficient to effect a noticeable improvement for a very attractive price. That same amplifier in front of a higher grade receiver could actually harm weak signal reception, even as it makes some signals stronger.

The bottom line is that it worked. On a scanner. Isn't this site about scanners and the tricks that work?

It's RADIO Reference, not SCANNER Reference, so the site is really about sharing knowledge over a broader base than simply scanners. Some people only want to know the tricks that will work on their scanner. Others want a deeper understanding of the physics that make their radios work.
 
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Encino, CA
How about we leave both of our comments to stand on their own, because they're both correct.

Enjoy! =)

Umm, Radio Reference features forums related to scanning. It hosts audio feeds of scanners. By and large its groups are scanner related. Therefore I assume that it is about scanners. You guys get into micro-detail minutia that has nothing to do with scanning. The description of this site states "The world's largest scanner frequency and radio communications reference source," so I guess that covers antenna theory. But as a newcomer all I can say is that for some it appears more like picking at flies with hemostats. Ease up so the rest of us can learn instead of picking apart every single statement with quote after quote after quote like you're disecting a frog in Biology 101. All I know is that I went to Radio Shack and bought their inline cable TV amplifier and some adapters and the results are amazing. Orange County comes in awesome now! To me that it all that matters.
 

zz0468

QRT
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Messages
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Umm, Radio Reference features forums related to scanning. It hosts audio feeds of scanners. By and large its groups are scanner related. Therefore I assume that it is about scanners.

You're only part right. There are 12 sub-forums for commercial radios, including one for system administrative types. In addition, there are 4 more sub-forums dedicated to HF monitoring. So, the site is a lot more than just scanning. We're all free to pick and chose what our interests are. My interest happens to be the technical side of things. Clearly, yours is not.

You guys get into micro-detail minutia that has nothing to do with scanning. The description of this site states "The world's largest scanner frequency and radio communications reference source," so I guess that covers antenna theory.

But scanners follow the same laws of physics that commercial radios do, and there are some people who come here with a desire to learn some of that "micro-detail minutia". Some of us have an extensive background in the business, and are happy to share what we know. Personally, it pains me to see so much misinformation passed on to newcomers like you. A substantial amount of information passed on here is, at best, incomplete, and at worst, grossly in error.

All I know is that I went to Radio Shack and bought their inline cable TV amplifier and some adapters and the results are amazing. Orange County comes in awesome now! To me that it all that matters.

I'm glad it worked for you. I really am. You're invited to put me in your ignore list, and not respond to my posts that weren't directed at you in the first place.
 
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zz0468

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Thank you for proving my point with your arrogant, self-aggrandizing point by point disection.

If your only point was that I tend to sectionalize my responses, then yes, your point was proven. You're welcome. =)

In the future, if you don't wish to participate in technical discussions of technical matters, I would suggest you avoid responding to my posts. I'm sure you'll be much happier if you ignore me.
 
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