common uhf frequencies

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seanb580

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Perhaps someone can help....
are there any frequencies that are between 380-470 and that may either be just a common frequency or a frequency that is not particularly not used for anything specific? Or, maybe a frequency that falls in this bandwidth that could be used for USAR operations between Air - Ground. Thanks.
 

SAR923

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I don't understand your question. 380 to 415 are generally federal frequencies used only by federal agencies. Everything above that is assigned by the FCC and area frequency coordinators except for FRS/GMRS frequencies. I would think that any USAR team already has common frequencies assigned that could be used for anything, including air to ground coordination. Why are you asking this question?
 

seanb580

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You would think that, but that isn't the case. I'm looking for a UHF freq. between 380-470 that a person can use to talk to aircraft while on the ground.
 

Don_Burke

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You would think that, but that isn't the case. I'm looking for a UHF freq. between 380-470 that a person can use to talk to aircraft while on the ground.
GMRS is legal on aircraft. You can also use the UHF business band.

Either would require a license.

I would have to dig into Part 95 to see if FRS is legal on aircraft, although I doubt it would be effective.
 

SAR923

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What kind of aircraft and for what purpose? You mentioned USAR - are you on a USAR team? If so, there should be a communications section attached to the team that can take care of these issues. Any frequency that can be licensed for public safety purposes can be used for air to ground. Most states have mutual aid frequencies in the UHF band and there are nationwide mutual aid frequecnies in the UHF band. I would think these would be prime candidates for on-scene use for any purpose, inlcuding air to ground.
 

seanb580

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Where can i find these UHF nationwide mutual aid freqs? I have Moto XTS5000 radios that are UHF range 1, I need to find a freq I can FFP while in the field and talk to aircraft using only my XTS5000. I want to eliminate carrying a second radio. My ideal plan is to make the initial contact with the aircraft then have them move to this UHF freq that I will have pre programmed into my radio. I just need a common UHF freq or a Mutual Aid freq that falls in the range of 380-470, whatever the freq, I need to make sure it isn't a federal / military freq that I could potentially get in trouble for using.
 

zz0468

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1. There are NO UHF frequencies you can operate in without a license, except for the FRS frequencies. And your XTS5000 is not legal to use on those frequencies.

2. There is no "common" frequency in that frequency range that any aircraft are equipped with.

3. There is no unused spectrum in the 380-470 MHz range that isn't already used by something specific.

4. All mutual aid frequencies in the UHF band require FCC licencing, Part 90 public safety eligibility, and regional coordination.

5. Any legitimate SAR organization should already have a communications protocol worked out, and that could well NOT include UHF, especially with aircraft involved.
 
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SAR923

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zz0468 pretty well summed it up. I asked you if you were a member of a USAR team and you failed to respond. Any legitimate agency should already have air to ground frequencies worked out as part of their comm plan. You simply can't field program a radio and come up on a UHF mutual aid frequency unless your agency already holds a license and your radio is accepted by your agency. If you are affiliated with an authorized agency, I suggest you take this up with your communications officer. If you're not part of an authorized agency, for example, a volunteer SAR or dog team, I suggest you forget this idea before you get in big trouble.
 

seanb580

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1. There are NO UHF frequencies you can operate in without a license, except for the FRS frequencies. And your XTS5000 is not legal to use on those frequencies.

2. There is no "common" frequency in that frequency range that any aircraft are equipped with.

3. There is no unused spectrum in the 380-470 MHz range that isn't already used by something specific.

4. All mutual aid frequencies in the UHF band require FCC licencing, Part 90 public safety eligibility, and regional coordination.

5. Any legitimate SAR organization should already have a communications protocol worked out, and that could well NOT include UHF, especially with aircraft involved.
why is the XTS5000 not legal to use on those freqs? The XTS5000's that we have are UHF radios and they fall in UHF range 1.
 

zz0468

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why is the XTS5000 not legal to use on those freqs? The XTS5000's that we have are UHF radios and they fall in UHF range 1.
I only said that the XTS5000 was not legal to use on FRS frequencies. FRS radios are severely limited in transmitter power, antenna must be permanently attached, etc. The XTS5000 exceeds the allowable abilities for use on those frequencies. It's perfectly legal elsewhere, but that requires that the frequencies used be licensed to the appropriate service.

Bottom line: You can't just take your radio, program it up on whatever frequency you think isn't used, and start talking.

BTW, "range 1" means nothing, in legal terms. That only represents the frequency range that Motorola states that the radio is capable of operating in. Just because it CAN operate in that entire range does not mean it's ALLOWED to.
 

seanb580

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zz....I'm sorry, but we are getting way off topic. You are not understanding me. I realize all that you are saying. I know you can't just start talking on any freq. that you want to. I understand what range 1 means and its relationship with Motorola. I did misunderstand you when you were talking about the FRS and XTS5000.
I am a member of a FEMA USAR team. I am a communications specialist for the team. We DO NOT have a freq. that is assisgned to us for such operations. That is why I'm looking for a UHF frequency that is a mutual aid / common freq such as 123.45 but only in UHF. It doesn't have to be and air freq. I just need a freq. that I know that I can use to get by with until someone from the ups and ups can get there to coordinate my freqs for me. I don't want to get into a lot details, that is why I haven't answered all the questions. I figured this would be a good place to start.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Talk to IRAC. Better yet, talk to someone at FEMA HQ. Local efforts at using federal frequencies are going to be frowned upon.
 

jerk

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zz....I'm sorry, but we are getting way off topic. You are not understanding me. I realize all that you are saying. I know you can't just start talking on any freq. that you want to. I understand what range 1 means and its relationship with Motorola. I did misunderstand you when you were talking about the FRS and XTS5000.
I am a member of a FEMA USAR team. I am a communications specialist for the team. We DO NOT have a freq. that is assisgned to us for such operations. That is why I'm looking for a UHF frequency that is a mutual aid / common freq such as 123.45 but only in UHF. It doesn't have to be and air freq. I just need a freq. that I know that I can use to get by with until someone from the ups and ups can get there to coordinate my freqs for me. I don't want to get into a lot details, that is why I haven't answered all the questions. I figured this would be a good place to start.
Okay, in your first posting of this question, you asked for any frequency between 380.000 and 470.000 that left the door wide open and so some included FRS and other radios.

Apparently you want specifically to take a FM (portable) radio and use it to communicate from the Ground to a Federal Aircraft that has AM capabilities.

The aircraft needs to be equipped with an FM radio or you need to be equipped with an AM radio. It is also coordinated through NTIA for Federal Frequencies.
Otherwise it is not easily done with the radios you have and are talking about here.

It would be easier for you to add a VHF Air Band radio to your equipment, and when you need to communicate with aircraft, federal or otherwise, just use that to facilitate communications.

Now unless you are using the “it’s easier to beg forgiveness that to ask permission school” I don’t see you approaching this the right way. But I don’t and won’t work for the Federal government. But there are channels and procedures to follow. There is a guy who works for Clark Co. IN that could help you. PM and I’ll see if I can find his email address.
 

SAR923

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I've been talking to Sean by PM and I think we have his situation sorted out. Sean, sorry to sound so gruff initially but we get some wannabes in here on occasion and I'm always reluctant to give much information until I have some idea that you have a real need for the information.
 

zz0468

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We DO NOT have a freq. that is assisgned to us for such operations. That is why I'm looking for a UHF frequency that is a mutual aid / common freq such as 123.45 but only in UHF. It doesn't have to be and air freq. I just need a freq. that I know that I can use to get by with until someone from the ups and ups can get there to coordinate my freqs for me. I don't want to get into a lot details, that is why I haven't answered all the questions. I figured this would be a good place to start.
There is no such frequency in the UHF band. If your group doesn't have a protocol in place to deal with the problem, then one needs to be developed and put in place. Otherwise, your best bet is to either get a business frequency licensed for the area you operate in, or a GMRS license for all the expected participants, or maybe your contacts in FEMA can guide you.

There ARE designated mutual aid frequencies, but those are reserved for public safety agencies. Popping up on one of those without proper coordination and licensing WILL draw unwanted attention. If yours is a legitimate organization, there may be some eligibility for a license. You also may be locking yourself out of some viable solutions by insisting that you be able to use your UHF XTS5000. Most professional organizations define the need, procure needed frequencies, and THEN buy the radios.
 
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seanb580

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zz...once again, you are missing the point. We are a professional agency, we are a public safety agency. I can use the mutual aid freqs. Sar has been nice enough to privately help me out. Thanks.
 

seanb580

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I've been talking to Sean by PM and I think we have his situation sorted out. Sean, sorry to sound so gruff initially but we get some wannabes in here on occasion and I'm always reluctant to give much information until I have some idea that you have a real need for the information.
Jim.....no problem.....I totally understand. Thanks for your help...
 

zz0468

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zz...once again, you are missing the point. We are a professional agency, we are a public safety agency. I can use the mutual aid freqs. Sar has been nice enough to privately help me out. Thanks.
So... um... then why are you asking for advice on a hobby oriented website? Your whole scenario smells like fish. Have a good day.
 

seanb580

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So... um... then why are you asking for advice on a hobby oriented website? Your whole scenario smells like fish. Have a good day.
You should have your senses adjusted then. The question is why WOULDN'T I ask for advice on a hobby oriented website? There are some people on here that are in the same field as I am. There are some people on here that have forgot more about radios than I will ever know about radios. There are people on here that genuinely like to help.

I don't have too much pride to ask for help when needed.

Good Day.
 
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