Communicating with PRO2096

[eesz34]

I came across a PRO2096 with a display that doesn't work. Other than that, it's in quite good condition. I fixed the display and it seems to work fine now (disclaimer: I'm good with electronics but began this knowing nothing about scanners)

Now I'm trying to program it with a computer interface cable. Going off this schematic (http://www.starrsoft.com/software/Win96/cables/bp_pcifcablea.jpg) I built something similar. I see that the scanner expects 3.3V instead of RS232's positive and negative voltages. So that's what my circuit does. If I use Win96 and upload to scanner, I get a nice pulse train between 0 and 3.3V on the output, and feed that into the PC/IF jack using a stereo cable and connecting ground to the base ring and the signal to the middle ring.

The scanner doesn't respond. All it does is continue to say "*CLONE MODE* UP to send, Remove Cable to Exit". If I try pressing up and then 1, I see data coming from the tip connection of the plug.

Now, there's no guarantee the PC/IF connection works. This thing was basically thrown in the garbage when I got it and I assume it's because of the display which I fixed. But it's transmitting data, picks up radio transmissions, and knows when I plug a cable into PC/IF. Is there some other secret to this? Why won't it respond when I send data to it?

 

[JD21960]

Win96 is a pain with Pro96/2096 for some reason. I used ARC96 *has a free 45 day trial too* and it worked every time. It lets you see the PORT better that you're trying to communicate with. Win96 refused to see it after sending data to the scanner or trying to download from form.
Give ARC96 a try. Bet it works better.

 

[w2lie]

I also suggest the ARC96 software. That is how I programmed my PRO-2096.
FWIW, my display went bad after I purchased it and had Radio Shack repair it. The display has since gone south again.

Besides trimming the ribbon cable, how did you fix the display on your scanner?

 

[eesz34]

Win96 is a pain with Pro96/2096 for some reason. I used ARC96 *has a free 45 day trial too* and it worked every time. It lets you see the PORT better that you're trying to communicate with. Win96 refused to see it after sending data to the scanner or trying to download from form.
Give ARC96 a try. Bet it works better.

I actually tried ARC96 too and the scanner likewise ignores it. If I connect a scope to the stereo headphone plug I'm using, I do see data across the two rings furthest from the tip, yet when plugged into the scanner it doesn't acknowledge anything being received. Is the display supposed to indicate data is being received while it's occurring? Grrrrr frustrating.

 

[eesz34]

I also suggest the ARC96 software. That is how I programmed my PRO-2096.
FWIW, my display went bad after I purchased it and had Radio Shack repair it. The display has since gone south again.

Besides trimming the ribbon cable, how did you fix the display on your scanner?

See my other reply for more info. ARC96 also does not get the PRO2096 to respond in any way.

For the display, I simply disconnected the LCD cable then reconnected. I was surprised that worked since it seemed to be fully inserted when I took it apart, but it could have been out a little. Or, maybe the contacts had light oxidization.

 

[kruser]

I could be wrong but I thought the Pro96 or 2096 no longer use an interface with both TX and RX data tied together at the tip of the plug.
I think one signal needs to go to the tip and the other would go to the ring if my memory is correct. I don't recall which however.

The original RadioShack programming cable for the older models used a standard Mono 1/8th inch plug. Later designs came with an adapter that shorted the tip and ring signals together in the stereo to mono adapter. Most of the modern designs used this design so one never used the included adapter.
You may be able to test this by lifting one of the signals off of your home brewed adapter and only leave one signal hooked to the tip of your interface.
Try sending and receiving from the radio then. If one direction works, this is most certainly the problem and you will need to build a new interface using a stereo plug at the radio end. You may be able to simply wire the signal you lifted to the ring of a stereo plug and see if you can then transfer data in both directions. If no luck, try reversing which signal is going to the tip in your interface. There's a very good chance one direction will work with the design you used simply by lifting one of the signals so they are no longer shorted together at the tip of your plug. I don't recall if the signal levels will be correct for the signal you lifted from your current design but chances are that they will still be correct, you just need to apply one direction to the tip and the other to the ring of a stereo plug.
These interfaces are pretty robust and as long as you keep the signal levels close, you should not burn anything up.
The PC/IF interface is TTL level so it would use either 5 or 3.3 VDC. I seem to recall the interface in the radio worked okay with either voltage level without damage but if 3.3 VDC works, I'd stick with that to minimize the chance of burning up the interface inside the radio.
It's been a while since I messed with this but I also built interfaces using the same design you used.

I think the older models like the Pro-93 and 95 used the design like you built where both TX and RX data were present at the tip of a mono plug but newer radios did need the signals to be separated out with one signal on the tip and the other on the ring. The sleeve will still be correct using the design you built. That is, the common is the sleeve of the plug regardless if the RX and TX data need to go to tip and ring or if they can be combined with both going to the tip.

Hope this helps and it should be an easy fix using what you have already built by simply swapping out the mono plug with a stereo plug and a little bit of re-wiring to separate the two data signals!

 

[w2lie]

I agree with Kruser. I believe the PRO-2096 required the mono cable and not the stereo cable. If you need me to check I can pull my PRO-2096 from storage and hook it up.

 

[kruser]

I agree with Kruser. I believe the PRO-2096 required the mono cable and not the stereo cable. If you need me to check I can pull my PRO-2096 from storage and hook it up.

This is backwards! The 2096 should use the "stereo" or three terminal design. The OP used a schematic based on the other design that combines both signals together.

 

[eesz34]

I could be wrong but I thought the Pro96 or 2096 no longer use an interface with both TX and RX data tied together at the tip of the plug.
I think one signal needs to go to the tip and the other would go to the ring if my memory is correct. I don't recall which however.

The original RadioShack programming cable for the older models used a standard Mono 1/8th inch plug. Later designs came with an adapter that shorted the tip and ring signals together in the stereo to mono adapter. Most of the modern designs used this design so one never used the included adapter.
You may be able to test this by lifting one of the signals off of your home brewed adapter and only leave one signal hooked to the tip of your interface.
Try sending and receiving from the radio then. If one direction works, this is most certainly the problem and you will need to build a new interface using a stereo plug at the radio end. You may be able to simply wire the signal you lifted to the ring of a stereo plug and see if you can then transfer data in both directions. If no luck, try reversing which signal is going to the tip in your interface. There's a very good chance one direction will work with the design you used simply by lifting one of the signals so they are no longer shorted together at the tip of your plug. I don't recall if the signal levels will be correct for the signal you lifted from your current design but chances are that they will still be correct, you just need to apply one direction to the tip and the other to the ring of a stereo plug.
These interfaces are pretty robust and as long as you keep the signal levels close, you should not burn anything up.
The PC/IF interface is TTL level so it would use either 5 or 3.3 VDC. I seem to recall the interface in the radio worked okay with either voltage level without damage but if 3.3 VDC works, I'd stick with that to minimize the chance of burning up the interface inside the radio.
It's been a while since I messed with this but I also built interfaces using the same design you used.

I think the older models like the Pro-93 and 95 used the design like you built where both TX and RX data were present at the tip of a mono plug but newer radios did need the signals to be separated out with one signal on the tip and the other on the ring. The sleeve will still be correct using the design you built. That is, the common is the sleeve of the plug regardless if the RX and TX data need to go to tip and ring or if they can be combined with both going to the tip.

Hope this helps and it should be an easy fix using what you have already built by simply swapping out the mono plug with a stereo plug and a little bit of re-wiring to separate the two data signals!

Thank you for the detailed reply! However I did fail to mention I'm already using a stereo cable. Some research I did first led me to the conclusion that this model will accept a stereo plug, and maybe or maybe not mono. So I figured sticking with the separate Tx/Rx is better.

With a stereo plug connected, I use the base (collar) as ground and see data from the tip when I initiate a clone on the scanner, 3.3V signalling. The ring then must be "to the scanner" as it appears open when measured for voltage. I even ohmed out between the collar and ring, and it starts out high impedance then very quickly goes beyond the 30meg limit of my meter. Sending data from ARC96 to the ring goes unnoticed by the PRO2096. I've confirmed the data is getting all the way to the stereo plug with my scope, and it's a nice bitstream with 3.3V levels. I tried another stereo plug and it does the same.

I've also monitored the "from scanner" connection with my scope and it remains high (3.3V) while sending data to the scanner. So hmmmm. I thought this would be easier!

 

[eesz34]

Tried something else: I tried a FTDI USB-to-logic eval board (UMFT230XA) with 3.3V I/O. Again I see the data coming from ARC96 out of the FTDI board, appears to be 19.2K rate. And if I initiate a clone from the 2096, I can view the data coming through the virtual com port in a serial program. But the scanner still refuses to respond.

 

[kruser]

Tried something else: I tried a FTDI USB-to-logic eval board (UMFT230XA) with 3.3V I/O. Again I see the data coming from ARC96 out of the FTDI board, appears to be 19.2K rate. And if I initiate a clone from the 2096, I can view the data coming through the virtual com port in a serial program. But the scanner still refuses to respond.

That all sounds good. Have you tried reversing TX and RX at both the 1/8th inch plug and then at the DB-9 end if not using the FTDI device? Of course not both at the same time! I guess it's possible something has failed with the circuit inside the radio but I can't recall ever reading a post with a failure in the PC/IF circuit. That part seems to be a fairly robust design with little that can go wrong.

I know I also built a circuit such as you did and using a similar transistor or chip to handle the voltage change between devices. It was a very simple and straightforward circuit from what I recall. I've built more complicated circuits using one of the many "Max" 232 type chips before that also worked but this radio should not need all of that.

Have you looked at the actual jack inside the radio when fixing the display and made sure that it has not been damaged or altered by someone?
I'm out of ideas myself so hopefully it is something very simple!

For some reason, I think I was able to use a similar FTDI Eval board without any external components. I think it already had any needed voltage switchers built on the eval board but it's been a while since I would have done that.
The original stereo tipped radioshack scanner programming cable was an FTDI based device that just had the proper tip on one end to plug into these radios. They included a stereo to mono pigtail so it could be used with the older models that only used the tip and sleeve by combining tx and rx onto one wire.
When you plugged in the FTDI Eval board, the computer did assign it a Com port correct? From what I recall of that FTDI device is that it was just a level shifting device that got you to TTL levels plus provided a USB based Serial adapter on the computer side.
The 19.2 data rate also sounds correct. I have three of these devices in use today but they are all well tucked away behind the computer and hard to get at! They provide me with permanent connections to a couple Icom receivers that use the tied together rx and tx data lines as well as one GRE PSR-600 that uses the separated data lines with a stereo connector. Never had a single problem with any of them.
I hope you can get yours working!

 

[eesz34]

That all sounds good. Have you tried reversing TX and RX at both the 1/8th inch plug and then at the DB-9 end if not using the FTDI device? Of course not both at the same time! I guess it's possible something has failed with the circuit inside the radio but I can't recall ever reading a post with a failure in the PC/IF circuit. That part seems to be a fairly robust design with little that can go wrong.

I know I also built a circuit such as you did and using a similar transistor or chip to handle the voltage change between devices. It was a very simple and straightforward circuit from what I recall. I've built more complicated circuits using one of the many "Max" 232 type chips before that also worked but this radio should not need all of that.

Have you looked at the actual jack inside the radio when fixing the display and made sure that it has not been damaged or altered by someone?
I'm out of ideas myself so hopefully it is something very simple!

For some reason, I think I was able to use a similar FTDI Eval board without any external components. I think it already had any needed voltage switchers built on the eval board but it's been a while since I would have done that.
The original stereo tipped radioshack scanner programming cable was an FTDI based device that just had the proper tip on one end to plug into these radios. They included a stereo to mono pigtail so it could be used with the older models that only used the tip and sleeve by combining tx and rx onto one wire.
When you plugged in the FTDI Eval board, the computer did assign it a Com port correct? From what I recall of that FTDI device is that it was just a level shifting device that got you to TTL levels plus provided a USB based Serial adapter on the computer side.
The 19.2 data rate also sounds correct. I have three of these devices in use today but they are all well tucked away behind the computer and hard to get at! They provide me with permanent connections to a couple Icom receivers that use the tied together rx and tx data lines as well as one GRE PSR-600 that uses the separated data lines with a stereo connector. Never had a single problem with any of them.
I hope you can get yours working!

Success! But not in the way that was suggested and not how I expected it to work.

I was thinking about how the "to scanner" connection seemed to behave too much like an actual open circuit and began questioning if it is connected to anything. I also wondered how the clone cable, which is mono, worked at all if the 2096 indeed can Rx or Tx through it.

So I tried an experiment to see how easy it is to pull down the supposed "from scanner" line, thinking this could be a Tx/Rx combo line. With a 1K to ground, it went from 3.4V to about 0.8V....so the output impedance isn't very low. So I connected the Tx on my FTDI board to this through a 100 ohm resistor for some protection, and ta-da, the scanner indicated it's receiving!

I ended up connecting the FTDI Rx (input) directly to the scanner I/O line, and connected the FTDI Tx (output) also to the scanner I/O line but through a 1N914 diode so it doesn't interfere with the scanner transmitting. Works perfectly.

So I think that's crazy, and confusing. But anyway it works! Now I just have to figure out how to get the scanner to do what I want.

 

[kruser]

Cool!!
Yep, things don't always work the way you picture them working that's for sure!

Glad you get it working though and good thinking on getting it working.
Good luck getting things working like you want. I know these older models actually worked pretty well even with some of the limitations they have. I used my 96 for several years on our statewide P25 system. It will still work on this system today but one definitely needs to add custom tables as it is a VHF system that uses everything imagineable for frequencies indluding many federally assigned frequencies as well as paging band frequencies.
I never could get mine to track a 700 MHz site even though all the frequencies used by that 700 MHz site can be directly tuned with the Pro-96. It simply will not allow it to track the site if setup as a trunked P25 site. No matter what you put in for custom tables, it tries to tune the wrong frequency which the CC data is steering it to use. This is a known limitation with the 96 and 2096 though. I don't think a solution was ever found for trunking the 700 MHz band.
I've often wanted to see it would work using one of the external apps like maybe DSD+ where another radio is used for the CC data and then the 96 would be tuned directly from one of the DSD+ programs. I just don't remember if the 96 can also listen while it is being controlled via its PC/IF interface or if that is something that would require unplugging the pc/if jack first. It's been a while since I used my Pro-96!
I also used my 96 for CC monitoring along with Pro96com. It worked well for that purpose as it just needed to sit on the CC frequency and spit out the data to the software form logging only. Seemed like a waste of a good radio though.

 

[eesz34]

Cool!!
Yep, things don't always work the way you picture them working that's for sure!

Glad you get it working though and good thinking on getting it working.
Good luck getting things working like you want. I know these older models actually worked pretty well even with some of the limitations they have. I used my 96 for several years on our statewide P25 system. It will still work on this system today but one definitely needs to add custom tables as it is a VHF system that uses everything imagineable for frequencies indluding many federally assigned frequencies as well as paging band frequencies.
I never could get mine to track a 700 MHz site even though all the frequencies used by that 700 MHz site can be directly tuned with the Pro-96. It simply will not allow it to track the site if setup as a trunked P25 site. No matter what you put in for custom tables, it tries to tune the wrong frequency which the CC data is steering it to use. This is a known limitation with the 96 and 2096 though. I don't think a solution was ever found for trunking the 700 MHz band.
I've often wanted to see it would work using one of the external apps like maybe DSD+ where another radio is used for the CC data and then the 96 would be tuned directly from one of the DSD+ programs. I just don't remember if the 96 can also listen while it is being controlled via its PC/IF interface or if that is something that would require unplugging the pc/if jack first. It's been a while since I used my Pro-96!
I also used my 96 for CC monitoring along with Pro96com. It worked well for that purpose as it just needed to sit on the CC frequency and spit out the data to the software form logging only. Seemed like a waste of a good radio though.

I might be ok then. Looks like all the frequencies around here are in the 800s and the system is "APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" which I think the 2096 will handle. Again, I'm very new at this! I've put the primary and alternate control channels in, and some talkgroup IDs of interest. Now I just have to figure out how to make it do it's thing. Scan? Search? Not sure yet. I can tune to one of the voice channels in the FM mode and hear talking while it switches to DG, but I really want it to monitor the control channel.