Since reputable sources have been quoted in the past stating that there are fees (to DVSI) associated with this, such as Paul from Uniden (although exact amounts were never divulged), perhaps you can provide your source saying that he was wrong?PeterGV said:
Concept for a future Uniden scanner?
- Thread starter doctordave
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volume
how about a separate volume control for each channel ? like +1 +2 or -1 -2.
the scanner could be in 'normal volume' or 'adjusted volume' mode.
when in normal mode, volume would be as it always is.
when in adjusted mode, channels u selected would be either louder or quieter than the others.
how about a separate volume control for each channel ? like +1 +2 or -1 -2.
the scanner could be in 'normal volume' or 'adjusted volume' mode.
when in normal mode, volume would be as it always is.
when in adjusted mode, channels u selected would be either louder or quieter than the others.
nosoup4u said:
EXCELLENT idea...
Boy, you would think they would latch onto this idea. It's another piece of hardware that they can sell (and there is nothing wrong with that!).
I would convert to a handheld in a minute if this were available.
oldranger
Member
Added Features
I would like one that would automatically decypher encrpted traffic.
I would like one that would automatically decypher encrpted traffic.
MY Perfect Scanner
I would like a scanner that can decode the radio IDS from the control channel of an 800 system. We all know they can do it now, just let the radio search of I Calls.
Another feature I would go with I believe it has been motioned the Volume idea... That is a fantastic idea.
Keep a frame like the HT1550 from Motorola. Nice and comfortable and easy to operate. Louder speaker more power. Able to use lithium ION battery packs. Thus saving money and less waste.
For mobile maybe just a tad bigger display 3 line information with a row of icons to display status of the system. 2 Receivers maybe one could be set up for paging standby not wasting the whole scanner to wait for tones. Make it so that the 3 line display could show what the Second receiver is doing at the bottom one line with the other 2 as the primary.
Also I totally agree with a breakout box. One cable to the scanner and you have everything.
Maybe just maybe a wire output that could be interfaced to telephone mutes or car receivers. That way when your Page comes in or certain traffic you really want to hear come on. It would mute your car audio and play it either through the speakers or now thatis muted let you hear it better if you were jamming out.
A built in web server for live feed broadcasting would be great also.
Just some ideas I have had I have lots more but I need to get back to work.
Sorry for the spelling errors I am sure there is some.
I would like a scanner that can decode the radio IDS from the control channel of an 800 system. We all know they can do it now, just let the radio search of I Calls.
Another feature I would go with I believe it has been motioned the Volume idea... That is a fantastic idea.
Keep a frame like the HT1550 from Motorola. Nice and comfortable and easy to operate. Louder speaker more power. Able to use lithium ION battery packs. Thus saving money and less waste.
For mobile maybe just a tad bigger display 3 line information with a row of icons to display status of the system. 2 Receivers maybe one could be set up for paging standby not wasting the whole scanner to wait for tones. Make it so that the 3 line display could show what the Second receiver is doing at the bottom one line with the other 2 as the primary.
Also I totally agree with a breakout box. One cable to the scanner and you have everything.
Maybe just maybe a wire output that could be interfaced to telephone mutes or car receivers. That way when your Page comes in or certain traffic you really want to hear come on. It would mute your car audio and play it either through the speakers or now thatis muted let you hear it better if you were jamming out.
A built in web server for live feed broadcasting would be great also.
Just some ideas I have had I have lots more but I need to get back to work.
Sorry for the spelling errors I am sure there is some.
PeterGV
K1PGV
loumaag said:
I can indeed:
See the license grant on the third page in: http://www.dvsinc.com/manuals/AMBE-2020_manual.pdf -- This grants the necessary license to use the chip.
For supporting information, see also G4GUO discussions about the AMBE-1000 and the Moe Wheatley DV over HF project using the AMBE-2020 specifically, neither with any mention of licenses or royalties for AMBE/IMBE decode.
In fact, I can find no mention of any additional license fees for ANY project that uses the AMBE-2020 (this includes the Temple University work, the very recent DV Dongle work,etc.)
Given that you can buy the chip readily, and that the chip incldues a license grant to use the intellectual property contained in it (per the page I linked), there is no reason to believe that there are any other license fees required. In fact... when would they inform you of these fees, what would they be for, and how would they be collected?
The way IP licensing works in the semiconductor industry is that license fees for chip-based intellectual property are (almost universally) included in the cost of the chip. That's why the AMBE-2020 is $20, and not $1.20.
With all due respect, I believe people may be confusing the license available from DVSI to software that uses this chip, or the license available from DVSI to use their AMBE/IMBE decoding algorithms IN SOFTWARE (not in conjunction with the AMBE-2020).
Would you be kind enough to show me where Paul said specifically that there were license fees payable to DVSI for use of an AMBE-2020 or AMBE-1000 chip to decode AMBE/IMBE beyond the cost of the chip itself?
de Peter K1PGV
DonS
Member
Does the $20 AMBE-20x0 part support IMBE? Based on a few quick Google searches, both Moe Wheatley's DVDongle and the G4GUO stuff seem to use AMBE, not IMBE. Even DVSI's own documentation for the AMBE-2020 linked above makes no mention of IMBE.PeterGV said:
ARRL has a document here that says:
We discovered that the IMBE technology from DVSI, used in APCO25, Inmarsat and Iridium is obtainable only through license, at significant cost. Our conversations with DVSI were amicable enough, but the company is obviously in business to make money and negotiations over special software licensing of IMBE were ultimately unfruitful. Some hams have obtained APCO25 radios and use them with compatible digital repeaters; but they are relatively few and far between-- they cost too much for most hams. AMBE is available in chip form; IMBE only as software.
If it (the AMBE-20x0) doesn't support IMBE, and if the desired result is a radio that will decode IMBE from the P25 CAI, then the only option is DVSI's software library, which must be licensed from DVSI. (I suppose someone could write their own IMBE vocoder, then also pay royalties to DVSI, but that seems pointless).
Thank you Don, I really didn't have the time to look up the ARRL info (although I had read it). If Peter would have said he was talking about the AMBE chip and not the IMBE chip with the associated software necessary I would have tumbled faster to his error.DonS said:
For those that might be interested, one of our bright users here (EricCottrell) is attempting (with no success yet) to adapt the AMBE-2020 (using a DV-Dongle) to work on P25 CAI. As an experimental project, this probably would not attract any adverse attention by DVSI; however, I suspect if it worked and anyone tried to market such a solution, swift infringement action by DVSI would follow.
PeterGV
K1PGV
AMBE-2020? License Fees? P25 Decoding??
Indeed, Lou and DonS are right... the AMBE-2xxx chips are NOT backwards compatible to IMBE. There *are* backwards compatible AMBE/IMBE implementations, but the AMBE-xxxx chips are not backwards compatible.
Prompted by Lou's question, I spent some time exchanging emails today with the good and patient folks at DVSI. The bottom line:
a) The AMBE-2020 is in fact $20 in quantities less than 250.
b) There ARE NO additional licensing or royalty costs for using the AMBE-2020 or AMBE-2000 to decode digital voice.
c) Now the bad news: The AMBE-2020 CAN NOT be used to decode an extracted P25 digital audio stream. The AMBE-2xxx series are designed only to be compatible with other AMBE-2xxx encodings, but NOT with P25 audio decoding.
According to DVSI, there is no chip-level solution that will decode a P25 audio stream.
DVSI *does* have a board-level solution that will decode the data extracted from a P25 audio stream. This is the VC-55-PR. It's, ah, just a bit over $900 per board in small quantities.
Soooooo... while the AMBE-2020 is inexpensive and does not entail any additional license fees, neither it nor any chip-level device is useful for decoding a P25 audio stream. Thus, it appears one is indeed stuck paying royalties for the software to do the decoding... or buying the board on which the software is built.
So I stand, at least partially, corrected. Thanks Lou.
This all seems so unnecessarily complicated to me. I suspect that DVSI products are specifically designed to preserve the price premium they can command for P25 compliant solutions.
It will be interesting to see if Eric has any luck with his project... but from what the folks at DVSI said today, it doesn't look promising.
de Peter K1PGV
Indeed, Lou and DonS are right... the AMBE-2xxx chips are NOT backwards compatible to IMBE. There *are* backwards compatible AMBE/IMBE implementations, but the AMBE-xxxx chips are not backwards compatible.
Prompted by Lou's question, I spent some time exchanging emails today with the good and patient folks at DVSI. The bottom line:
a) The AMBE-2020 is in fact $20 in quantities less than 250.
b) There ARE NO additional licensing or royalty costs for using the AMBE-2020 or AMBE-2000 to decode digital voice.
c) Now the bad news: The AMBE-2020 CAN NOT be used to decode an extracted P25 digital audio stream. The AMBE-2xxx series are designed only to be compatible with other AMBE-2xxx encodings, but NOT with P25 audio decoding.
According to DVSI, there is no chip-level solution that will decode a P25 audio stream.
DVSI *does* have a board-level solution that will decode the data extracted from a P25 audio stream. This is the VC-55-PR. It's, ah, just a bit over $900 per board in small quantities.
Soooooo... while the AMBE-2020 is inexpensive and does not entail any additional license fees, neither it nor any chip-level device is useful for decoding a P25 audio stream. Thus, it appears one is indeed stuck paying royalties for the software to do the decoding... or buying the board on which the software is built.
So I stand, at least partially, corrected. Thanks Lou.
This all seems so unnecessarily complicated to me. I suspect that DVSI products are specifically designed to preserve the price premium they can command for P25 compliant solutions.
It will be interesting to see if Eric has any luck with his project... but from what the folks at DVSI said today, it doesn't look promising.
de Peter K1PGV
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Peter,PeterGV said:
Indeed I think this is exactly right. Now as semi-retired (sooner or later I will stop saying "semi") software producer and business man, I say "here-here". If I was DVSI, I would do exactly the same thing. As a scanner hobbyist, I too would like to find the magic solution, but I suspect if there is one, it will be so complicated as to be used only by those such as Eric.
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