Concord NC and Cabarrus county

[epepperjr]

I had an older Uniden anolog scanner and was able to listen to these departments and surrounding fire. I really enjoyed it. Everyone went digital and I have not listened since. Would like to to get back listening. Someone mentioned that they could be encrypted- I don’t know much about this stuff tech wise. Any equipment recommendations or other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[JRush311]

Youre near me, I routinely monitor Union,Stanly,and Meck county
I will dial in cabarrus and see if they or concord is encrypted.
I suggest a Unication G4 or G5 they handle the simulcast system excellent

 

[CFP387]

I routinely monitor Cabarrus and Kannapolis Fire, and occasionally Concord Fire if I'm in the area, (dispatch and OPS) and all of those are clear. Cabarrus County dispatches simulcast on VHF (154.34 PL 146.2) and only fireground comms are on UASI, Kannapolis dispatches simulcast on VHF (154.43 PL 146.2) but after dispatch all units switch to an OPS channel on the UASI for all traffic, and Concord dispatches primarily on UASI.

 

[trumpetman]

There is very limited used of encryption in Cabarrus County, mostly on just law tac channels, and investigation channels, and supposedly some conference channels but I haven't been able to verify the conference channels yet.

 

[CFP387]

A little off topic, trumpetman, but still a question involving Cabarrus County. I talked personally to a gentleman who is a member of a rural fire department in Cabarrus County this past week. He has a VHF radio in his truck but says that it's only in there to monitor VHF county fire because Cabarrus County has "blocked" all incoming VHF transmissions since their switch to P25. Of course, we know that they still transmit simulcast on VHF for fire dispatch but, according to him, they no longer "listen" to incoming VHF traffic. Can you confirm if this is indeed true and if Kannapolis has done the same?

 

[KE4ZNR]

He has a VHF radio in his truck but says that it's only in there to monitor VHF county fire because Cabarrus County has "blocked" all incoming VHF transmissions since their switch to P25. Of course, we know that they still transmit simulcast on VHF for fire dispatch but, according to him, they no longer "listen" to incoming VHF traffic. Can you confirm if this is indeed true and if Kannapolis has done the same?

This would match up to what Durham County is doing these days: The Initial Durham Co Fire Dept Locution Dispatch is carried over both Durham 800Mhz and on the one way outbound VHF frequency so that those in the County that still carry Minitors can hear the initial dispatch. DECC does not monitor the VHF frequency for any inbound traffic in any way.
More and more counties are going to setups like this.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[CFP387]

Thanks Marshall. I wasn't aware that any county still using VHF was set up this way.

What is the advantage that setup though? If the they transmit simulcast, why block the VHF rx side?

 

[KE4ZNR]

Thanks Marshall. I wasn't aware that any county still using VHF was set up this way.

What is the advantage that setup though? If the they transmit simulcast, why block the VHF rx side?

A couple of reasons:
1) Less that the dispatch center has to monitor.
2) After initial call alert the on scene radio traffic is carried on the TRS anyway.
I have also heard that multiple initial dispatch transmission paths can help county fire departments with their ISO rating
but I don't know how true that is.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[trumpetman]

That is correct that Cabarrus no longer maintains a watch on the inbound side of the VHF dispatch frequency. About 5 years ago the only site in the simulcast that had a receiver active was at Mt Pleasant to allow for West Stanly units to talk to Cabarrus if they didn't have an 800 radio, but that was to be shut down around the time the county went P25 is my understanding. Now that Stanly is primary on 800 along with all the other surrounding counties it is less necessary based on Marshall's reasons above. Not to mention less interference and potential for anyone with a cheap analog radio to harass dispatch or gain access to a trunked system.

Kannapolis does monitor their VHF frequency still and a large percentage of the radio fleet is dual band APX7000 with Kannapolis fire, Rowan fire, and other VHF tac frequencies for use in case of a system failure.

Marshall, take a look at NFPA 1221 for "Standard for the Installation, Maintenance, and Use of Emergency Services Communications Systems". A quick Google will produce a million firehouse forums and articles that touch on the key points. Having a secondary means of dispatch and a "hardened" means of primary dispatch (by NFPA standards) will count towards a better ISO rating.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Marshall, take a look at NFPA 1221 for "Standard for the Installation, Maintenance, and Use of Emergency Services Communications Systems". A quick Google will produce a million firehouse forums and articles that touch on the key points. Having a secondary means of dispatch and a "hardened" means of primary dispatch (by NFPA standards) will count towards a better ISO rating.

Thanks man. I know I heard about that in the past.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[CFP387]

We have some departments (and POV's) in this Rowan County that still have VHF radios installed in them. Some of them are for backup and some are for primary communications. If the trunking systems goes completely down and the 8TAC channels aren't operable, the good ol' trusty backup is still simplex VHF. While I understand the reasoning mentioned above as to why some county's have decided to mute the inbound side of VHF, I would hope that the frequency could be "unmuted" if needed if there is a system failure.

Our county comm center still listens to the inbound side of VHF and I hope they continue to always do so. Some of our brass in EM now carry APX8000's so that they can access our abandoned fire VHF and law UHF frequencies and repeaters should the need ever arise.

 

[KE4ZNR]

While I understand the reasoning mentioned above as to why some county's have decided to mute the inbound side of VHF, I would hope that the frequency could be "unmuted" if needed if there is a system failure.

There is this misconception that Trunked Radio Systems do not have fallback ways of operation when needed. Site Trunking is the first level of reduced operating capacity. Users of a local simulcast system can still use their radios with the exception of the dispatch consoles.
Next is Failsoft....note that Failsoft does NOT mean that the system is inoperable. The system still functions with each of the system frequencies reverting to conventional status. On a system like the Durham City/County system that means the 24 system frequencies turn into 24 individual conventional repeaters with agency users assigned to a specific repeater. Is the capacity reduced? Yes but comms can still continue.
Next up is if the system goes off the air totally (which would only happen in a mass disaster scenario). At that point system users are instructed to switch to one of the neighboring systems where coverage overlaps with our system coverage where comms can continue. We have 2 systems where we have backup "mutual aid" talkgroups can be used in a pinch. Of our neighboring systems are off the air then we revert to 8CALL90 & 8TAC90-94 Conventional Repeaters. Note that I have never seen a situation where multiple trunked radios systems are off the air at the same time.
With all of the redundancy built into Trunked Radio Systems spending money on a VHF radio system would be wasteful as the VHF frequencies would never get used.
TL;DR: Trunked System backup plans don't simply go straight from Trunked System off the air->VHF. There are many levels of reduced operating capacity and redundancy built into the trunked systems themselves.
Hope this helps
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[KG4KHQ]

Several years ago at High Point, we took a lightning strike to our tower. At the time we were a single-site system so we lost everything trunking related along with use of the consoles. We had 4 backup conventional repeaters at another location we could use but we could only use portables from our ground floor location and we were having trouble hitting the repeaters. Our solution was to dispatch HPPD from from a police car in the parking lot and HPFD from a Batallion Chief’s vehicle parked alongside. Police calls were relayed to me from inside on a direct talk-around channel to a portable I had , I would write the information down and then dispatch the call using the mobile radio in the vehicle. Fortunately, we were able to get back up and running in an hour or two. Over the years before I retired, equipment was upgraded and we refined backup procedures.

 

[epepperjr]

Thanks guys

 

[CFP387]

...More and more counties are going to setups like this.

Yes, that is indeed correct. Rowan County has plans to do the same in about two years.