Contents of Radio Conversations

[n4jri]

After reading the "DES not happy with VSP" thread, I got a funny feeling in my stomach--not from that thread alone, but from the cumulative effect.

I think we should all remind ourselves of a few things:

1 - Radio conversations in most private radio services are protected by law, and it's very easy to ID who published a conversation on a computer BB.

2 - The quality of monitoring that we enjoy is directly proportional to the quality of privacy that the users perceive. As with a friend's personal secret, you can't expect to remain in confidence when you are repeating what is told you.

3 - Trunked users actually do enjoy a fair amount of privacy because of all the TG's to sort out, digitial audio being limited to certain scanners, etc., but some are pretty paranoid and and a perceived lack of privacy may cause them to MAKE things more private.

4 - (to expand on #3) Radio users in general don't see their systems the way we do, and tend to either overestimate or underestimate their level of privacy. The former makes for good scanning. The latter leads to lots of tax dollars being spent to make them sound like a noisy refrigerator.

5 - Lots of insiders watch this BB. I guarantee you that insiders gave us those DES TG's. STARS people are reading the mail here, too. They know that we're here discussing frequencies, talkgroups and coverage. I wouldn't want to surprise them with too many political conversations, details of their operations, etc.

Just food for thought.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[runslow]

After reading the "DES not happy with VSP" thread, I got a funny feeling in my stomach--not from that thread alone, but from the cumulative effect.

I think we should all remind ourselves of a few things:

1 - Radio conversations in most private radio services are protected by law, and it's very easy to ID who published a conversation on a computer BB.

2 - The quality of monitoring that we enjoy is directly proportional to the quality of privacy that the users perceive. As with a friend's personal secret, you can't expect to remain in confidence when you are repeating what is told you.

3 - Trunked users actually do enjoy a fair amount of privacy because of all the TG's to sort out, digitial audio being limited to certain scanners, etc., but some are pretty paranoid and and a perceived lack of privacy may cause them to MAKE things more private.

4 - (to expand on #3) Radio users in general don't see their systems the way we do, and tend to either overestimate or underestimate their level of privacy. The former makes for good scanning. The latter leads to lots of tax dollars being spent to make them sound like a noisy refrigerator.

5 - Lots of insiders watch this BB. I guarantee you that insiders gave us those DES TG's. STARS people are reading the mail here, too. They know that we're here discussing frequencies, talkgroups and coverage. I wouldn't want to surprise them with too many political conversations, details of their operations, etc.

Just food for thought.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

Well said. I totally agree with your comments. I experienced the same strange feeling when reading this post. Some things are better left unsaid in a public forum.

Andy

 

[MOTORHEAD3902]

Okay, Since you two weighed-in on this subject, I wont feel like such an old fuddy-duddy (at least any more than i already am) when i say this: It's not just STARS users that visit here, some of the STARS engineers have expressed great interest in what topics we discuss. To the point of considering greater encryption than what is already in place. More than once, I have been personally contacted by System Admin-types in regards to ensuring that not too much of the more "sensitive" STARS stuff is put on display. Some members of this board were even brought into question by our administrators. THAT matter was resolved, but you get my idea.
I say that to say this: We enjoy a great deal of openness when it comes to monitoring STARS. While the Administrators haven't PLANNED on encrypting anything more than they do already, I get the impression that they wouldn't think twice about encrypting everything should the mood suit them. PLEASE be careful about what we post. I agree we shouldnt have to face any encryption, and that us listener-types should be able to hear what we want, but the guys who control the "switches" to the encryption dont answer to me and you...and they dont always agree with us either.

FWIW,
B

 

[Stick0413]

After reading the "DES not happy with VSP" thread, I got a funny feeling in my stomach--not from that thread alone, but from the cumulative effect.

I think we should all remind ourselves of a few things:

1 - Radio conversations in most private radio services are protected by law, and it's very easy to ID who published a conversation on a computer BB.

2 - The quality of monitoring that we enjoy is directly proportional to the quality of privacy that the users perceive. As with a friend's personal secret, you can't expect to remain in confidence when you are repeating what is told you.

3 - Trunked users actually do enjoy a fair amount of privacy because of all the TG's to sort out, digitial audio being limited to certain scanners, etc., but some are pretty paranoid and and a perceived lack of privacy may cause them to MAKE things more private.

4 - (to expand on #3) Radio users in general don't see their systems the way we do, and tend to either overestimate or underestimate their level of privacy. The former makes for good scanning. The latter leads to lots of tax dollars being spent to make them sound like a noisy refrigerator.

5 - Lots of insiders watch this BB. I guarantee you that insiders gave us those DES TG's. STARS people are reading the mail here, too. They know that we're here discussing frequencies, talkgroups and coverage. I wouldn't want to surprise them with too many political conversations, details of their operations, etc.

Just food for thought.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

I agree! Its not like the funniest thing heard on a scanner in the tavern or anything this is actually serious stuff that I am sure they didn't want repeated.

 

[KC4ASF]

Gentlemen, I get your point. I should not have posted that info on here. After working in govt communications for 25 years I was blown away by their casual attitudes towards who might be listening, such as their bosses. But I should not have posted it here and being in the retirement mode, I wasn't thinking either about who might be on this list but thank heavens that I just summarized.


Ben

 

[n4jri]

It's interesting to see the end-user's view of what seems to be private or not.

Years ago, a local TV station had a brief flirtation with trunked radio, and then opted for some conventional UHF. A reporter called in from the field one day with a hot lead, and was told by the producer to go ahead and talk, that he was on a trunked radio system and no one could hear. (of course, they had already moved to conventional UHF, but weren't radio-saavy enough to realize it)

In the early days of trunking, Motorola was advertising a system called Privacy Plus--anybody remember that? The idea was that supervisors could have talkgroups that their underlings would not be able to monitor. The idea that someone with a scanner might listen in was not mentioned.

And Ben, I didn't mean to single you out in particular. I've had a few moments of my own. About 15 years ago, I posted some air/air freqs used by the Air National Guard--and those freqs went silent within a month. That forced me to spend every free moment looking for their new ones, and it took quite a while. Lesson learned.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[KC4ASF]

Don't worry about it Allen, I should not have done that and I am thankful that I did just summarize. I wasn't thinking other than about their conversations. I kinda had my mouth open listening to their total disregard as to the possibility that "someone" else might be listening. But maybe I should just give them the benefit of simply not knowing and maybe they just need some TRS education! ) I did have some long ago but still mess up sometimes during casual conversations that get carried away..

73
Ben

 

[gcgrotz]

Now see there? Nice civilized conversation -- unlike on some of the forums on here. Ben, if you're not a native you certainly are a Virginia gentleman now. Good show and welcome to RR if I haven't said it before. The more locals we can get on here the better it will be.

And ref your PM Ben, I have heard others (don't remember who maybe DGIF) praising it up and down with stuff like "sounds like you're in the car sitting next to me" type stuff. It's all in your perspective as a user I guess. Somebody a while back posted a mp3 of some VSP techs talking one night. Maybe it will e-mail if you want, I wouldn't want to re-post it.

 

[CVASSB]

Very good

This is wise ,and its been stated very clearly,and very intelligently. I aggree with you all.

 

[KC4ASF]

Actually, I was born and raised in a little town named Timberville, VA. It was quite small and had no stop lights. It sit in the middle of the Shenandoah Valley and everybody knew everybody. It is not like that anymore!!

 

[n4jri]

Rockingham County, right?

 

[KC4ASF]

Yes..

 

[gcgrotz]

My boss lives over that way...