Continued trouble with NXDN trunking (TRX-2)

[theTastyCat]

Hey all - I know before the 1/20 update that the only way to monitor NXDN with any success was to conventionally scan the non-CC freqs, though there were still issues. Post-1/20 update it seems many of those issues were fixed; I can monitor my local NXDN conventionally without transmissions being cut short after ~2 seconds, and I don't think traffic is being missed (though with 3 SOs and county medics on the same system, it would be hard to tell!!)

So I got all excited about the update hoping NXDN trunking was fixed, since hearing all that traffic is sort of like listening to three symphonies at the same time. Programmed a scanlist to be just my county's SO and medic, but now I'm missing a ton of traffic and transmissions usually get cut off after about two seconds.

Is this happening to everyone? Not sure how I could have programmed a radio in such a way to cause it to cut transmissions short, but I've learned not to underestimate myself in that regard...

So assuming that this is a continuing firmware issue, would my best option be to program the four non-cc freqs, put in the SO TG, program the four again, put in EMS TG, program the system again, put in Fire...or is there a better way? Seems like it only allows one TG per channel on Conventional so I can't think of any other way.

Sure appreciate the help, all!

 

[troymail]

Can't track all your different threads - what system is this you are having problems with?

 

[theTastyCat]

Here she is:

Tennessee Homeland Security District 7 NXDN Trunking System, Various, Tennessee - Scanner Frequencies

 

[troymail]

Ok - now, which site and where are you in relation to that site?

 

[theTastyCat]

Thanks for your help - I really do appreciate it! I'm only using site 018 (Pleasant View). The control channel is 464.4625. I am on top of a hill seven miles away and reception is excellent. Just doesn't make sense why I'd be missing traffic or why transmissions get cut short unless it's a firmware bug, unless there's still some tweaking I can do somewhere.

Now I'm monitoring conventionally, but I'm scans all non-cc freqs at the site four times, each with a different TG, since it seems I can only specify one TG per channel. Is there something I'm missing that would make this work trunked?

 

[troymail]

Hmmmmmm.... a "Homeland Security" system (police, fire and EMS, etc.) that also services taxi companies ... talk about strange...

I thought I'd been reading that this was one of those systems folks have been trying to figure out -- I'm thinking there's things that aren't quite right while other parts are still in the "unknown" bucket...

 

[theTastyCat]

Gotcha - just glad to hear it's not just me! Yeah, it sure is weird to have a taxi company on there...if I'm listening to everything (and let me assure you, there is a LOT of traffic) it's funny to get some taxi chatter in with everything else...it's waaaay more low-key, that's for sure!

 

[troymail]

Seeing taxi companies on a "homeland security" (or public safety) system makes me think of that Domino's Pizza commercial that's been running around here lately..... the phrase "....and that's just not right..." comes to mind. I'm not there and it ain't my system so I can't really say much other than that beyond "that's just weird".

Point being is (to me anyway), it makes most of the information posted a little "suspect".

Best I can do is look at the license data and what is posted and play "data analyst".

 

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, most of the world has to do that with news media anyway (not that we're exempt either I suppose) - surely is an art!

 

[troymail]

You'll have to be my eyes and ears -- while monitoring, take note of a few things....

Assuming you're only monitoring the one site (4 frequencies?):

- are you hearing both sides of the conversation on a regular basis? Do you miss any responses when a user talks?

- seems like at least one frequency should be a continuous channel channel -- which of the 4 frequencies is that? Does it change? Daily? More or less often?

- note which frequencies you're hearing voice on --

- note which frequencies (and talkgroups) you're seeing "drop outs" of voice on...

- is any particular frequency (or frequencies) being seen as dropping out more than other frequencies - or it is all of them?

I'm looking at the license information for Greer and Chatham County - we already know we can never trust the FCC license data 100%... but there are even odd things about that as ell (not a shock really) -- a mix of station classes: FB2, FB6, FB8 - power levels that vary from 40 to 60 to 100 watts...

Aside from the odd license, frequency, power, users (?) - another thing I'm wondering (and I've seen before) is if some other signal source could be affecting your reception. I've seen drop outs from time to time (that have improved over time) and I'm pretty sure they ere the result of some other signal source or interference.

This is about as much as I can do since I'm hundreds of miles away.

One of the things I would do (and suggest to others from time to time) is to try to get close (say, inside a mile or so) of the tower/transmitters you're trying to figure out.... In this case, I'd go even further and say try to get close, remove your antenna, and do a search or sweep of the 450-466 range looking for string signals coming from that tower. Of course, this will take some time - even more if the system/site isn't that busy.

I love this kind of puzzle... I just need one of those future "transporters" to get me around quickly....

 

[hiegtx]

Troy,

It appears that your comment that 'this system is weird' is on the right path.

For the details on the site the OP is monitoring, site 018 (Pleasant View), the frequencies may be wrong.

For the site info on Pleasant View, it links to Pleasant View Site Details (Tennessee Homeland Security District 7 NXDN)

However, the license listed, WPPY736, actually belongs to Greer Communications, as you have seen. Frequencies 461.8375 & 464.4625 (what Tasty Cat identified as the control channel) belong to Greer. I don't see 463.4875 licensed in that county (Cheatham). The same goes for 460.3675, which I do not see licensed in Tennessee.

The third site frequency listed, 463.4875, is licensed in Tennessee, but not in Cheatham or it's immediately surrounding (contiguous) counties.

However, 453.4875, is licensed to Cheatham County on WQBY325
WQBY325 (CHEATHAM, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Tasty, instead of those listed frequencies ( alternatively, add another site), use the ones listed for the county under that license at Pleasantview & see what you hear. Those are 453.4875, 453.7375, and 460.6125.

A spot check of several of the other sites shows a license issued to a jurisdiction (city or county), not a business entity.

 

[troymail]

Troy,

It appears that your comment that 'this system is weird' is on the right path.

For the details on the site the OP is monitoring, site 018 (Pleasant View), the frequencies may be wrong.

For the site info on Pleasant View, it links to Pleasant View Site Details (Tennessee Homeland Security District 7 NXDN)

However, the license listed, WPPY736, actually belongs to Greer Communications, as you have seen. Frequencies 461.8375 & 464.4625 (what Tasty Cat identified as the control channel) belong to Greer. I don't see 463.4875 licensed in that county (Cheatham). The same goes for 460.3675, which I do not see licensed in Tennessee.

The third site frequency listed, 463.4875, is licensed in Tennessee, but not in Cheatham or it's immediately surrounding (contiguous) counties.

However, 453.4875, is licensed to Cheatham County on WQBY325
WQBY325 (CHEATHAM, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Tasty, instead of those listed frequencies ( alternatively, add another site), use the ones listed for the county under that license at Pleasantview & see what you hear. Those are 453.4875, 453.7375, and 460.6125.

A spot check of several of the other sites shows a license issued to a jurisdiction (city or county), not a business entity.

Yeah - if it were me, I'd park near the tower for a while and see what I can hear without an antenna....

Another possibility in the signal dropout would be if one of the (believed to be) site frequencies is really a frequency for a more distant site. I routinely hear some distant activity but it comes and goes and tends to drop out.

The fact that none of the Pleasantview frequencies on the RRDB is listed as a control channel makes me believe the information is at minimum incomplete if not (or the far end) inaccurate. Couple in that the listings indicate there are taxi companies on a system that is supposed to be for "homeland security" - well.... Certainly sounds like some wires (err - I mean system/site information) are crossed somewhere....

Having the absolute correct information about a systems/sites is pretty important.

 

[hiegtx]

Yeah - if it were me, I'd park near the tower for a while and see what I can hear without an antenna....

Another possibility in the signal dropout would be if one of the (believed to be) site frequencies is really a frequency for a more distant site. I routinely hear some distant activity but it comes and goes and tends to drop out.

The fact that none of the Pleasantview frequencies on the RRDB is listed as a control channel makes me believe the information is at minimum incomplete if not (or the far end) inaccurate. Couple in that the listings indicate there are taxi companies on a system that is supposed to be for "homeland security" - well.... Certainly sounds like some wires (err - I mean system/site information) are crossed somewhere....

Having the absolute correct information about a systems/sites is pretty important.

Yep, I'd agree completely. You're probably correct that some of the "submitted" information could actually have been from a more distant site.

While there are a few agencies here in N. Texas where their dispatching is actually done by a third party company, with other users, those are small towns, with low needs. Nothing close to a multi-county 'Homeland Security' system, which also has business users.

 

[W5RGP]

Hmmmmmm.... a "Homeland Security" system (police, fire and EMS, etc.) that also services taxi companies ... talk about strange...

I thought I'd been reading that this was one of those systems folks have been trying to figure out -- I'm thinking there's things that aren't quite right while other parts are still in the "unknown" bucket...

Yea Greer communications owns the system I live in dickson county and was with the so when they first went to it it was lcn at first dickson county spent a ton of money on towers

I wonder how many of those towers are being used for other clients not related to le



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[W5RGP]

Troy,

It appears that your comment that 'this system is weird' is on the right path.

For the details on the site the OP is monitoring, site 018 (Pleasant View), the frequencies may be wrong.

For the site info on Pleasant View, it links to Pleasant View Site Details (Tennessee Homeland Security District 7 NXDN)

However, the license listed, WPPY736, actually belongs to Greer Communications, as you have seen. Frequencies 461.8375 & 464.4625 (what Tasty Cat identified as the control channel) belong to Greer. I don't see 463.4875 licensed in that county (Cheatham). The same goes for 460.3675, which I do not see licensed in Tennessee.

The third site frequency listed, 463.4875, is licensed in Tennessee, but not in Cheatham or it's immediately surrounding (contiguous) counties.

However, 453.4875, is licensed to Cheatham County on WQBY325
WQBY325 (CHEATHAM, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Tasty, instead of those listed frequencies ( alternatively, add another site), use the ones listed for the county under that license at Pleasantview & see what you hear. Those are 453.4875, 453.7375, and 460.6125.

A spot check of several of the other sites shows a license issued to a jurisdiction (city or county), not a business entity.

Yea and Greer owns the licenses for dickson county also

The homeland 7 area is middle tn it includes dickson county in the center then all county's that border dickson

Including cheatum and Hickman and Montgomery
Montgomery is the county that Clarksville is in and is the city where Greer communication is


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[theTastyCat]

You all are one sharp bunch - and good detectives. With help from a member here I've gotten DSD+ running, and can confirm that what's the in the database is a complete disaster. Submitting changes now.

Hiegtx, you were dead on - 453.4875 is one of them!!

Here it is:

104 - 453.4875
251 - 460.6125
323 - 461.8375
392 - 463.4375
459 - 464.4625 (CC)

So all that said, the problems I'm having *are* with these corrected, DSD+ confirmed freqs :/

I may take some video of my TRX-2 monitoring this system trunked so you all can see how abysmal it is!

Sure do appreciate all the help.

 

[SCPD]

I was just about a reply, take the RRDB with a grain of salt.
I would not go as far to say it's a diaster, I would say a sad state of affairs
I know most contributors mean well but many are theorist and wrongly identify a TG or frequency
I bet Uniden and Whistler tech support group get calls or emails daily for problems that are related to inaccurate data in RRDB if they don't follow RR
I suspect if it hasn't taken place already a discussion between Uniden/ Whistler and RR In reguards to the RRDB

You all are one sharp bunch - and good detectives. With help from a member here I've gotten DSD+ running, and can confirm that what's the in the database is a complete disaster. Submitting changes now.

Hiegtx, you were dead on - 453.4875 is one of them!!

Here it is:

104 - 453.4875
251 - 460.6125
323 - 461.8375
392 - 463.4375
459 - 464.4625 (CC)

So all that said, the problems I'm having *are* with these corrected, DSD+ confirmed freqs :/

I may take some video of my TRX-2 monitoring this system trunked so you all can see how abysmal it is!

Sure do appreciate all the help.

 

[theTastyCat]

Oh, I wasn't inferring the entire thing was a disaster - I'm far from qualified enough to comment on that! Just this particular site - every freq was wrong except the CC. Glad I could help in some way - you all have certainly been kind to help me.

Listening to Cheatham SO on DSD+ right now, and man, it is on fire - almost constant traffic. My TRX has NEVER delivered all this traffic - let me try and get a video to show.

 

[W5RGP]

You all are one sharp bunch - and good detectives. With help from a member here I've gotten DSD+ running, and can confirm that what's the in the database is a complete disaster. Submitting changes now.

Hiegtx, you were dead on - 453.4875 is one of them!!

Here it is:

104 - 453.4875
251 - 460.6125
323 - 461.8375
392 - 463.4375
459 - 464.4625 (CC)

So all that said, the problems I'm having *are* with these corrected, DSD+ confirmed freqs :/

I may take some video of my TRX-2 monitoring this system trunked so you all can see how abysmal it is!

Sure do appreciate all the help.

Sent you a private msg


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[theTastyCat]

UPDATE with video

Hey all - just did an extremely interesting test. Went outside and took five minutes of video of my TRX-2 scanning trunked NXDN in the truck while DSD+ recorded inside on my PC. Comparing the two via timestamp, here is how the TRX-2 performed:

Missed call
:09 (205221) - Squelch opens briefly, no speech heard
:13 (205225) - Just the word "six" heard - full call is "936, 10-8, Code 1, *unintelligible*, Control 7."
Two missed calls
:22 (205234) - First second of call missed - "...7, Code 8" heard, full call is "937, Code 8."
Missed call
:41 (205253) - Picks up dispatch 2.5 seconds into call at :41
Three missed calls
1:12 (205324) - Picks up unit 847 *six* seconds into call

No traffic for almost two minutes, seven missed calls

2:59 (205511) - Picks up unit 923 three seconds into call

Almost another two minutes of silence, six missed calls

4:42 (205654) - Picks up call after one second
Missed call
5:00 (205712) - Picks up call after one second. Heard "out, 1706," full call is "919, show me out, 1706."
Missed call

To be clear, I have confirmed all the frequencies in DSD+ that are programmed into the TRX-2. I was monitoring only a single site of only this one NXDN system with four talkgroups active, though there was only activity on one for the duration of the test. My truck antenna is a Larsen Tri-Band, and I was stationary on a hill seven miles from the site.

Here is the video of the TRX-2 scanning:

https://youtu.be/KHMlSJKnE3o

Here is another video of all the calls back-to-back that DSD+ recorded during the exact same time of the test.

https://youtu.be/zr-BB0xB_yU

I'm sure everyone can appreciate how much of a drag it is to be monitoring my local SO with these kind of results. I appreciate for your input!