Control Channels And Listed Control/ Voice Channels On RR database And Programming For Non Affiliate Scanning..I moniter most of the listed Control Channels in My Area via a Pro96 scanner.In doing this, with all the Control/ voice frequencies programmed in the scanner i notice that only 4 or so frequencies ( assuming voice freqs)have any reception activity on them, most of these being the Non Highlighted frequencies on the RR database and coming from 2 individual sites in my area..In programming the xts5000 with proven steps for Non Affiliate Scan on a individual system, is there a ideal number of Control Channels/ voice channels in a given area to be programmed in to have ideal coverage and reception?? i noticed in the past, if memory serves me well, ive heard that you only want to program the least amount as possible in order not to have issues with having missed transmissions or lag..i know the control channel section in the software you can program alot of cc's in, but is it feasible to do so without sacrificing missed signals?
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Control Channel Programming On NAS
- Thread starter tradecraft6f
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ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
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No, you program in all the CCs. if you miss one, there will be a time where that CC is being used but your radio won't have it in the CC list, and thus, out of range.
You program the radio as if it's an authorized radio other than taking the NAS steps required to keep it transmitter silent.
You program the radio as if it's an authorized radio other than taking the NAS steps required to keep it transmitter silent.
Hmm..so, multiple sites, multiple cc's? think ive tried that with missed transmissions in comparison to another reception source or another xts5000 with less cc's..or at least i remember it doing that..read something about changing the system search from 2 seconds to 255 seconds..
yeah..i use a scanner to determine what sites/ cc's/voice freqs are active and the radio for best reception/ audio and simulcast reception in a given area..just didnt think having over 30 or more cc's would be feasible for receiving all voice traffic..but radio is used primarily for simulcast, which it does great from even 60 miles away..far cry better than a scanner, which wont pick up the simulcast from that distance..
Chances are the radio isn't receiving more than 2 control channels at a time. Each site only has 1 active at a time. But if the CC changes, your radio needs to know so it can adjust as well. You're not listening to 30 CCs simultaneously
so..the 2 listed for each site, im seeing during the site being scanned on a scanner, isnt even showing those 2 frequencies on the screen, its showing a couple of the non highlighted frequencies on that site during reception..so, im assuming for the 2 individual sites ive got programmed in all the listed frequencies listed on rr, say a total of 10 frequencies, 5 for 1 site and 5 for the other, out of those 5 on 1 site, 2 non highlighted frequencies are rxing and displaying, having audio..the 2 cc's for each of those sites isnt even rxing or showing any activity..the activity rxing audio is 2 of the non cc frequencies on both sites..So, thats why im questioning all of this.... Example: Site 1> 852.975( CC), 853.5875 ( CC)..851.8875. 851.5625..851.3875 OF Those 5 frequencies..851.8875 and 851.5625 are the only 2 freqs showing activity on that site..vice versus on the other site..so, according to the scanner, these 2 sites, the listed cc's are not correct or at least thats what im seeing..
ive got 10 frequencies programmed on the scanner for 2 sites, 5 each and 2 freqs of each site listed on rr as being cc's, but on the scanner, the rr listed cc's arent active, 2 of the other 3 freqs listed are active..so,thats a real dilemma in programming..
Maybe you should just use a scanner being you have no clue how trunking systems work.
I'm trying very hard to be patient with you here....let me try to explain this one more time.
Only ONE of the control channels will be sending info OTA at a time that the radio is then decoding. This control channel then tells the radio which voice channel will be active for a particular talkgroup as determined by the system controller. In your case the 851.8875 is the control channel and 851.5625 is the voice channel. Since 852.975 and 851.8875 are both control channels, it means they both have the ability to be control channels and therefore both need to be in the radio. You won't receive any audio on a control channel because thats not what their purpose is. That's why voice channels exist and all audible traffic is passed on the voice channel.
If this is a difficult concept to understand, they make great scanners capable of dealing with simulcast distortion.
Only ONE of the control channels will be sending info OTA at a time that the radio is then decoding. This control channel then tells the radio which voice channel will be active for a particular talkgroup as determined by the system controller. In your case the 851.8875 is the control channel and 851.5625 is the voice channel. Since 852.975 and 851.8875 are both control channels, it means they both have the ability to be control channels and therefore both need to be in the radio. You won't receive any audio on a control channel because thats not what their purpose is. That's why voice channels exist and all audible traffic is passed on the voice channel.
If this is a difficult concept to understand, they make great scanners capable of dealing with simulcast distortion.
If you have a site with five frequencys, two of which are listed as control channels, one of those control channels (and only one) is active as a control channel at any given time. The other one (the non-active one) will likely be used for voice, but may be less preferred for voice and may end up only being used when the system is under load and it needs to be used.
I have no idea about programming radios in general, but you need to have all of the control channels in to ensure that if the control channel changes (and they do from time to time for various reasons), your radio is still going to pick up the system.
With the questions you are asking though, I'd certainly be careful. If you don't do it right you'll end up transmitting. The people who program radios for NAS are typically pretty savvy and are aware of every caveat and make sure and dot their I's and cross their T's to ensure that their radio never transmits. I know that if I were doing it (and i don't / won't) I would have gone over the procedure a dozen times to make sure that there is no chance my radio is going to transmit and try to talk to the system or even just transmit garbage on one of the trunked system frequencies.
Project25_MASTR
Monitoring
That could be an accurate statement or an inaccurate statement depending on the area and the radio behavior. One thing I don't know (as it isn't well documented) is if in NAS the radio will populate the adjacent site info into the flash or if spectrum wide scan will actually function.
With the larger systems its common now to only program the local control channels into the radio instead of the control channels for the full system. The radio will learn adjacencies and roam as needed…no need to overcomplicate your codeplug when you can just put enough info in to get the radio to affiliate and being learning adjacencies.
ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
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But I would expect that an unauthorized radio programmed only to be a scanner would not learn adjacent systems as needed. That behavior would imply an authorized radio in every case, would it not? Logging in and telling the central controller, "I'm leaving the coverage area for site 12, can you update me with data for site 13, please?" would not be behavior we want out of a radio programmed to no affiliate scanning!
After all these years I just still wish that Motorola would allow personalities to be created as RX only in trunking. It's an option for conventional operation. Just add it to trunking.
Harris sees the sense in RX only operation. So do most of Moto's competitors.
After all these years I just still wish that Motorola would allow personalities to be created as RX only in trunking. It's an option for conventional operation. Just add it to trunking.
Harris sees the sense in RX only operation. So do most of Moto's competitors.
i know the concept of how trunking works..But in this case, how am i going to be sure al
Project25_MASTR
Monitoring
I wouldn't expect it to either but as you stated with other vendors that do allow RX only systems, the BKR9000 for example will follow the standard operation when it's in RX only mode. It will roam according the roaming profiles and learn/expand it's flash memory as it does.
it just seems to a a outdatrd listing or a change of highlighted cc's in this area or the sites programmed..yeah, i hope to get a bendix king or a Harris for this stuff..even the scanner seems to have lag or issues with a few of these sites..i heard not to program Every freq listed per site..if that would be the case id have to program 5-7 freqs per site times 4 just for the county im in and adajent sites this would add up to 50+ freqs includiing 2 listed cc's per site plus all the other listed freqs on each site..
For the now THIRD time, you dont program voice channels into the radio
Right...
Do yourself a favor and get a scanner or a unication or literally anything else other than a radio.
Based on my learning this stuff with an SDR and DSD+, adjacent site info (site # and current CC channel/freq) is part of the data stream from a CC. A subscriber shouldn't need to transmit in order to build a neighboring site list. Whether any given system is constructed to include the information correctly may, of course, another matter. Also unknown is whether a particular subscriber will decode that info and use it without doing anything unwanted. I wouldn't trust a programming-only solution.
Project25_MASTR
Monitoring
You aren't wrong, the real question…how does that work when the radio is scanning a conventional frequency as the primary (such as with NAS)?
PLEASE, for legal reasons and to keep your sanity, sell the radio and get a Unication or scanner... or a Harris if you HAVE to get a radio.
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