Control Tower Listening Distance...Hmmmm

[icemantim8]

Good morning all

I read in one of the forums someone asking the question how far away can they hear the control tower for their local airport. It seems like all of the answers said it was very limited due to line of sight, distance, etc.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for just a bit.

I am in Colorado Springs, Colorado and I monitor COS (Colorado Springs airport).

I live on the west side of the Springs in zip 80904. The airport is located on the east side of town approximately 13 - 15 miles away via ground.

I do not have line of sight whatsoever due to the mountainous and hilly terrain between myself and the airport.

I receive the tower 119.9, ground 121.7, the various app/dep frequencies but VHF/UHF. I also monitor the USAFA which is approximately 7 miles from me. Again, hilly and mountainous terrain with zero line of sight.

I use (2) BC125AT scanners with telescoping antennas presently and have used PRO 2004, 2005, 2006 and many many other scanners and receivers.

I can even monitor the aircraft on the ground receiving instructions. I can also hear the maintenance vehicles asking to cross the runway.

I previously lived in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, NM. Never really close to the airport in either city and I have never had any issues hearing tower/ground/app/dep.

Is it just my magnetic personality? Maybe it's because I served in the USAF and they granted me special privileges'? The only time I have had trouble monitoring any of the air band are the times that I had actual air band transceivers.

I guess I am just saying that your mileage may vary On my occasional trips to Denver, no problem monitoring DEN aka DIA

Just my experience monitoring Civilian and Military Comms.

Happy scanning!

Tim
KC5RYY

 

[trentbob]

Good morning all

I read in one of the forums someone asking the question how far away can they hear the control tower for their local airport. It seems like all of the answers said it was very limited due to line of sight, distance, etc.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for just a bit.

I am in Colorado Springs, Colorado and I monitor COS (Colorado Springs airport).

I live on the west side of the Springs in zip 80904. The airport is located on the east side of town approximately 13 - 15 miles away via ground.

I do not have line of sight whatsoever due to the mountainous and hilly terrain between myself and the airport.

I receive the tower 119.9, ground 121.7, the various app/dep frequencies but VHF/UHF. I also monitor the USAFA which is approximately 7 miles from me. Again, hilly and mountainous terrain with zero line of sight.

I use (2) BC125AT scanners with telescoping antennas presently and have used PRO 2004, 2005, 2006 and many many other scanners and receivers.

I can even monitor the aircraft on the ground receiving instructions. I can also hear the maintenance vehicles asking to cross the runway.

I previously lived in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, NM. Never really close to the airport in either city and I have never had any issues hearing tower/ground/app/dep.

Is it just my magnetic personality? Maybe it's because I served in the USAF and they granted me special privileges'? The only time I have had trouble monitoring any of the air band are the times that I had actual air band transceivers.

I guess I am just saying that your mileage may vary On my occasional trips to Denver, no problem monitoring DEN aka DIA

Just my experience monitoring Civilian and Military Comms.

Happy scanning!

Tim
KC5RYY

You could very well be having what's called The knife's Edge effect. When there's obstructed signals they can bounce off of different things and find their way to you.

 

[icemantim8]

That sounds like a possibility perhaps. I have lived in 3 different locations in the Springs in vary different zip codes, areas, etc. The same in Albuquerque and Santa Fe and oh yes, Los Alamos. And for the record, I don't personally carry a knife Again, this is without any outdoor antennas.

 

[littona]

Don't assume the radio equipment is at the tower. Granted, they typically have a couple of multi-channel radios at the tower, but those are primarily for backup. They normally have a dedicated GATR (Ground-to-Air Transmitter/Receiver) site with all of the radios, which are remoted to the tower.

 

[icemantim8]

Yes you are correct I am well aware of that. I had some responsibilities related to this while I was in the Air Force I guess my only point was that everyone wants to claim that the transmissions are limited in distance and I have never found that to be the case in Colorado, Alaska, New Mexico, D.C. all of the places I have lived or were stationed. Again. I can't possibly be the only one who can monitor everything....lol

 

[Omega-TI]

Don't assume the radio equipment is at the tower. Granted, they typically have a couple of multi-channel radios at the tower, but those are primarily for backup. They normally have a dedicated GATR (Ground-to-Air Transmitter/Receiver) site with all of the radios, which are remoted to the tower.

I hear ya! I pickup Seattle Center (over 100 miles away) on 128.300 using a small 18" whip inside the house on my RTL-SDR.

 

[a417]

I hear ya! I pickup Seattle Center (over 100 miles away) on 128.300 using a small 18" whip inside the house on my RTL-SDR.

ZSE is not the tower at Sea-Tac. The OP was referring to the control tower, not ARTCC .

As it covers large geographic regions around airports, one would expect that you would be able to pick it up in the house with a wire hanger on an SDR. If you were picking up KSEA's ground frequencies, that would be different...but you're not.

 

[AM909]

Elevation can be surprising. According to the NTIA file, the VHF and UHF GND, TWR, etc. are the typical 10 watts into a 0-gain dipole at the field at 38 48 37 N, 104 42 19 W, which GE says is at 1870 m (AMSL?) elevation. The rest of the metro area west of the airport is well below that, down to around 1790 m. To get 13-15 mi away to the west, you must be up to the northwest near the USAFA, and that area is mostly up around 2000 m.

FAA VHF freqs at that location include 118.5, 119.9, 120.6, 121.5, 121.7, 124.0, 125.0, and 133.150. There are also 9 UHF channels.

 

[TerryPavlick]

I hear ya! I pickup Seattle Center (over 100 miles away) on 128.300 using a small 18" whip inside the house on my RTL-SDR.

Are you hearing aircraft talking to Seattle Center or are you hearing both the ARTCC controller and the aircraft he or she is talking to on that frequency. If just the aircraft then not really a big deal - the aircraft may be over top of your house. If you are hearing the controller as well then you are near a remote transmit / receive site for the center that is remoted back to the controller sitting at the Seattle Center facility.

 

[Omega-TI]

Are you hearing aircraft talking to Seattle Center or are you hearing both the ARTCC controller and the aircraft

Both.

 

[TerryPavlick]

Both.

So then you are close by to a remote site for Seattle Center. Unless you live next to the Seattle Center facility itself. Where I live - I can hear Washington Center located west of Dulles Intl Airport in Virginia talking to aircraft via a remote site located about 10 miles away. The remote site is located so that aircraft in the area on the ARTCC frequency Washington Center uses can hear the controller.

You probably are within range of this remote site

Hoquiam, WA - RCAG N 46.946944 W 124.149444

 

[Omega-TI]

So then you are close by to a remote site for Seattle Center. Unless you live next to the Seattle Center facility itself. Where I live - I can hear Washington Center located west of Dulles Intl Airport in Virginia talking to aircraft via a remote site located about 10 miles away. The remote site is located so that aircraft in the area on the ARTCC frequency Washington Center uses can hear the controller.

You probably are within range of this remote site

Hoquiam, WA - RCAG N 46.946944 W 124.149444

That makes more sense, it's about 65 miles in a direct line. Thanks.

 

[wtp]

i lived 5 miles from the Punta Gorda Florida airport and only heard the planes before landing and after take off.
this is flat land
the highest point in punta gorda is 6 feet.

 

[TerryPavlick]

i lived 5 miles from the Punta Gorda Florida airport and only heard the planes before landing and after take off.
this is flat land
the highest point in punta gorda is 6 feet.

A few factors ..... any tall buildings between you and the airport? Was the interstate between you and the airport ? I see a lot of one story houses in the city. So if you have a lot of houses between you and the airport and the antenna is not mounted on your roof (above the other houses) then the signal could still be blocked. Squelch setting to high ?

Things that you may not believe can block reception.

 

[wtp]

sure, plenty of buildings, mostly 1 story.
back of set antenna, the roof mounted one got the airport and Miami TV at times.
squelch is always low.

 

[TerryPavlick]

sure, plenty of buildings, mostly 1 story.
back of set antenna, the roof mounted one got the airport and Miami TV at times.
squelch is always low.

So you heard the tower etc with the roof mounted antenna - but not with back of set antenna ?

 

[wtp]

well it was a 14 foot TV antenna on a rotor, before hurricane Charlie.

 

[dlwtrunked]

So then you are close by to a remote site for Seattle Center. Unless you live next to the Seattle Center facility itself. Where I live - I can hear Washington Center located west of Dulles Intl Airport in Virginia talking to aircraft via a remote site located about 10 miles away. The remote site is located so that aircraft in the area on the ARTCC frequency Washington Center uses can hear the controller.

You probably are within range of this remote site

Hoquiam, WA - RCAG N 46.946944 W 124.149444

Seattle Center also has at a transmitter site on the same frequency (128.3) at Larch Mountain.
Note: Washington Center itself is located in Leesburg, VA which is more north of Dulles than west of Dulles.)

 

[TerryPavlick]

Seattle Center also has at a transmitter site on the same frequency (128.3) at Larch Mountain.
Note: Washington Center itself is located in Leesburg, VA which is more north of Dulles than west of Dulles.)

Okay on the other site not sure if closer to the person hearing it.

Yes - I was trying to give a general direction. I have been past the Washington Center facility many times over the years. Miss seeing the log periodic antenna. ah the olde days.......

 

[prcguy]

I lived in Rustic Hills for six years not far from Powers and Constitution on the side of a hill facing COS airport. I could see the runway with binoculars and had lots of military jets fly low over the house with B1Bs putting on quite a show right over my house doing touch and go landings. I also used to pick up helicopters down range at Ft Carson over 40mi away on VHF low band which was a treat. Now I'm about 25mi from LAX with a hill in the way and I can still pick up LAX towers and most aircraft on the runway. Your base antenna and height will have a lot to do with distant aircraft reception.

Good morning all

I read in one of the forums someone asking the question how far away can they hear the control tower for their local airport. It seems like all of the answers said it was very limited due to line of sight, distance, etc.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for just a bit.

I am in Colorado Springs, Colorado and I monitor COS (Colorado Springs airport).

I live on the west side of the Springs in zip 80904. The airport is located on the east side of town approximately 13 - 15 miles away via ground.

I do not have line of sight whatsoever due to the mountainous and hilly terrain between myself and the airport.

I receive the tower 119.9, ground 121.7, the various app/dep frequencies but VHF/UHF. I also monitor the USAFA which is approximately 7 miles from me. Again, hilly and mountainous terrain with zero line of sight.

I use (2) BC125AT scanners with telescoping antennas presently and have used PRO 2004, 2005, 2006 and many many other scanners and receivers.

I can even monitor the aircraft on the ground receiving instructions. I can also hear the maintenance vehicles asking to cross the runway.

I previously lived in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, NM. Never really close to the airport in either city and I have never had any issues hearing tower/ground/app/dep.

Is it just my magnetic personality? Maybe it's because I served in the USAF and they granted me special privileges'? The only time I have had trouble monitoring any of the air band are the times that I had actual air band transceivers.

I guess I am just saying that your mileage may vary On my occasional trips to Denver, no problem monitoring DEN aka DIA

Just my experience monitoring Civilian and Military Comms.

Happy scanning!

Tim
KC5RYY