Cost of Insuring an old AT&T Long Line Tower Site

Stupidfatkid

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
170
Location
Kansas
I'm looking at the possibly of purchasing an old abandon AT&T Long Line tower site to use as an amateur radio tower site. Has anyone purchased one of these? I'm curious how insurance works on a site like this and what to expect in insurance cost. Also, if there's any not obvious caveats to consider.
 

Attachments

  • tower.jpg
    tower.jpg
    121.7 KB · Views: 116

lenk911

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
120
Location
St Paul, MN
I have had clients that purchased these. They are only really of value if the primo land ownership comes with them. Primo = High HAAT and reasonable zoning.

HUGE POTENTIAL DISPOSAL ISSUES:
If it is painted, its a high probability it is full of layers and layers of lead paint. Even if it doesn't appear painted it may have been reduced to below 201 feet and then its lead stripes covered with grey paint. That will bring you big problems with EPA rules on re-painting and especially disposal. Add to that you have a tower that has been standing 70+ years manufactured by a company, probably Blaw Knox, that has been long out of business.

Feed horns and wave guide are another disposal issue. Sure there is a lot of copper but also a lot of materials nobody seems to want.

BOTTOM LINE: Unless the land is primo, forget about it. Let someone else buy the obligations and you be just a renter!
 

Stupidfatkid

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
170
Location
Kansas
I have had clients that purchased these. They are only really of value if the primo land ownership comes with them. Primo = High HAAT and reasonable zoning.

HUGE POTENTIAL DISPOSAL ISSUES:
If it is painted, its a high probability it is full of layers and layers of lead paint. Even if it doesn't appear painted it may have been reduced to below 201 feet and then its lead stripes covered with grey paint. That will bring you big problems with EPA rules on re-painting and especially disposal. Add to that you have a tower that has been standing 70+ years manufactured by a company, probably Blaw Knox, that has been long out of business.

Feed horns and wave guide are another disposal issue. Sure there is a lot of copper but also a lot of materials nobody seems to want.

BOTTOM LINE: Unless the land is primo, forget about it. Let someone else buy the obligations and you be just a renter!
That interesting. Lead paint hadn't crossed my mind.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
24,909
Location
United States
That interesting. Lead paint hadn't crossed my mind.

There's other challenges:

-these sites had generators, so often on site fuel storage. Make sure that's been cleaned up and the tanks (if they are still there) are in good shape. Clean up from leaky fuel tanks gets super expensive. If the tanks are still there, there's three situations:
They have already leaked
-or-
They are getting ready to leak.
-or-
They are currently leaking.

-Asbestos. Needs to be encapsulated/remediated.

-Battery systems. Hopefully they are already gone, if not, that's a huge mess to deal with. Hazardous/toxic material. Heavy as hell and hard to move around.

I've got a couple of tower sites at work, but I don't know what the insurance is like for them. I know we require any contractor, climber, tenant, or other party to have at minimum a $1 million insurance policy to even step on the site.

Towers require periodic maintenance. AT&T was really good about that, but they likely haven't owned that site in a very long time. Inspection would be warranted, and they'll likely find deficiencies. An insurance company may not be willing to supply a policy unless that's been completed.

Adding any new antennas/equipment to the tower itself would need to be reviewed by an engineer. Any time a carrier wants to change out antennas at our sites, we require an engineering study.

Depending on the location/height of the tower, lighting may be required. That requires electricity. There are also some really tight rules about keeping them lit at all times, and the FAA gets really cranky if you don't.

American Tower and Crown Castle own a lot of these sites. If they don't own this one, it's probably because they don't see any potential to make money off the site. Don't buy a tower thinking you'll attract lots of high paying customers. If they are not already on the site, they probably don't want it.

You're a ham, I'm a ham, many of us are hams, so I'm going to call this one: If it's your repeater, then cool, but that's a hell of an investment for one repeater. If you are thinking of offering it to other hams, understand that we are a bunch of cheap SOB's and either won't pay, want it for free, or want it super cheap. Hams are not known for following electrical/building codes, so be cautious about who you let in.

Sharing tower sites between hams and commercial users comes with some challenges. Make sure you understand all those before going down this path.

Cool tower, would be an awesome project. I hope it works out well for you.
 
Last edited:

ShawnInPaso

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
468
any not obvious caveats to consider.
If it's on federal land, you'll have the USFS permitting process and fees to deal with.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,098
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
any not obvious caveats to consider.
If it's on federal land, you'll have the USFS permitting process and fees to deal with.
That should be obvious in the ad for this site, if its USFS land you would not be purchasing any property or real estate, you would just be purchasing a building and tower. You cannot get a typical real estate loan because there would be no land to use as collateral for the loan. USFS sales are usually cash, no loans and you pay the USFS a yearly fee which is usually less than what property tax would be and there is no property tax on a USFS site. The USFS is very aware of hazardous stuff and would be on your butt to clean up or remove anything that pollutes or is hazardous. Or if something is no longer used at the site they would want it completely removed and cleaned up at your expense.
 

W1KNE

Owner ScanNewEngland
Database Admin
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
2,046
Location
New England
Depending on the location/height of the tower, lighting may be required. That requires electricity. There are also some really tight rules about keeping them lit at all times, and the FAA gets really cranky if you don't.
I just want to add onto mmckenna's excellent list. If the tower is over 200 feet and/or in an area were a FAA Hazard determination was made that it is lit, it must be lit. While the FAA gets cranky, the FCC gets finey. (yes that's a new word I made up). The cost of maintaining the lighting systems is typically in the $1000's for the climbers to replace the bulbs and even more so for LED replacements. If the FAA Hazard determination also states you need to be painted, having the tower not painted will also bring back that pesky FCC fine again.
Painting the tower is very expensive, and necessary for maintaining the "health" of the metal behind it.

And the fines are NOT cheap, and very difficult to get lowered.
 

videobruce

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
452
Location
Buffalo NY
If you are thinking of offering it to other hams, understand that we are a bunch of cheap SOB's and either won't pay, want it for free, or want it super cheap. Hams are not known for following electrical/building codes, so be cautious about who you let in.
Ouch !
That is only the 2nd time I have heard something like that (thou not quite as to the point as that) and it was from someone ( a Amateur operator) who was 'cheap', which really surprised me. :eek:
 
Top