N0IU
Member
Either way! Coffee or Mt. Dew... its just a different form of caffeine delivery!
Crabby hams
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Either way! Coffee or Mt. Dew... its just a different form of caffeine delivery!
kc5uta
Member
I AM NOT A CRABBY HAM DAGNABBIT!!!!! **Dave stop shouting** I AM NOT SHOUTING!!....oops : )
Most interesting thread!
Since some folks seem to be posting in this thread as a means to justify their status as a "crabby ham", I'll chime in.
Recently, in another on-line community, a ham asked how he could implement a particular feature in his radio. The first response he got was from another ham saying that the radio did not have that feature.
Really? I knew for a fact that the radio had that feature and that I had used it several times. So, I opened the PDF version of the manual, found the feature in the manual, which was sufficiently prominent in the manual to have its own section heading and table of contents entry, and replied to the OP telling him what menu steps he needed to check in order to implement the feature and where to find the description in the manual.
What I found troubling about this is that the OP apparently hadn't bothered to read the manual himself. What I found further troubling is that the first respondent hadn't bothered to read the manual, either, and falsely proclaimed that the radio didn't have that feature.
If someone asks a question and the answer can be found by reading available documentation, I'm going to point that person to said documentation just about every time. I figure, like others in this thread, that if you show a guy how to answer his own question, he'll learn the answer with deeper understanding than if I just recited the answer to him. If he's too lazy to read the documentation and thinks I'm a crabby ham for telling him to do so, well, tough.
Recently, in another on-line community, a ham asked how he could implement a particular feature in his radio. The first response he got was from another ham saying that the radio did not have that feature.
Really? I knew for a fact that the radio had that feature and that I had used it several times. So, I opened the PDF version of the manual, found the feature in the manual, which was sufficiently prominent in the manual to have its own section heading and table of contents entry, and replied to the OP telling him what menu steps he needed to check in order to implement the feature and where to find the description in the manual.
What I found troubling about this is that the OP apparently hadn't bothered to read the manual himself. What I found further troubling is that the first respondent hadn't bothered to read the manual, either, and falsely proclaimed that the radio didn't have that feature.
If someone asks a question and the answer can be found by reading available documentation, I'm going to point that person to said documentation just about every time. I figure, like others in this thread, that if you show a guy how to answer his own question, he'll learn the answer with deeper understanding than if I just recited the answer to him. If he's too lazy to read the documentation and thinks I'm a crabby ham for telling him to do so, well, tough.
Crabby hams have always existed. Crabby people exist in every hobby.
Over time, you learn who the crabby ones are and you avoid them when you're not feeling up to talking with them.
Over time, you learn who the crabby ones are and you avoid them when you're not feeling up to talking with them.
N0IU
Member
From another very popular amateur radio forum:
The CC1XLRY is the cable for Yaesu. I don't own either of these radios, but it took me all of about 5 minutes to find the standard Yaesu microphone configuration and the TS-850 microphone configuration and I posted a graphic for each of these.
I guess I was in a good mood that day because my first response was going to be something like, "If you have to post a question like this on an Internet forum, then maybe you would be better off just buying the Kenwood cable.", but I thought better of it and just answered the question.
See, I don't have to be "crabby" all of the time! Now get off my lawn!
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F
feets
Guest
I often wonder if amateur radio is the first hobby/interest some people become interested in. I have many interests/hobbies and can say without a doubt, every single one of them has elitist, holier than thou, non helpful people in them.
I've been licensed less than a year and I have found no difference in the various personalities in amateur radio as compared to other interests I've been involved in. The crabby people are crabby, the friendly people are friendly. Some people are crabby and friendly/helpfull. I especially like those crabby and friendly folks, I learn more from them because they expect their time and help to be taken seriously.
Anyone that perseveres in any hobby will eventually find those personalities that they relate to so that they can enjoy participating and learning.
There are hobbies that do not require personal interaction like gardening. Those types of hobbies may be a better choice for those with thin skin. :wink:
I've been licensed less than a year and I have found no difference in the various personalities in amateur radio as compared to other interests I've been involved in. The crabby people are crabby, the friendly people are friendly. Some people are crabby and friendly/helpfull. I especially like those crabby and friendly folks, I learn more from them because they expect their time and help to be taken seriously.
Anyone that perseveres in any hobby will eventually find those personalities that they relate to so that they can enjoy participating and learning.
There are hobbies that do not require personal interaction like gardening. Those types of hobbies may be a better choice for those with thin skin. :wink:
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majoco
Stirrer
In many posts here and on other forums, there's often questions that start " I can't get my scanner/radio/transmitter to do such and such" and then expect a detailed explanation from an "expert" when the answer can be found in the user's manual.
Unfortunately some people just aren't good at reading instructions or don't have the temperament to interpret them correctly.
"That didn't work, I'll go on to the next step" is not the right answer!
Even when the next step looks logical, it may not be the right answer. In my pre-retirement job, I calibrated various bits of aircraft electronic test gear. In one particular caase, the instruction was to "Disconnect the 28volt supply from socket A" and the very next instruction was "Connect the 28volt supply to socket A" - of course the logical thing to do was to ignore both steps. WRONG! If you proceeded, copious amounts of smoke came from an overheated resistor and fibreglass PC board! Disconnecting the 28v caused a relay to drop out which wasn't re-energised when the power was restored.
If all else fails RTFM! Read the flaming manual!
Unfortunately some people just aren't good at reading instructions or don't have the temperament to interpret them correctly.
"That didn't work, I'll go on to the next step" is not the right answer!
Even when the next step looks logical, it may not be the right answer. In my pre-retirement job, I calibrated various bits of aircraft electronic test gear. In one particular caase, the instruction was to "Disconnect the 28volt supply from socket A" and the very next instruction was "Connect the 28volt supply to socket A" - of course the logical thing to do was to ignore both steps. WRONG! If you proceeded, copious amounts of smoke came from an overheated resistor and fibreglass PC board! Disconnecting the 28v caused a relay to drop out which wasn't re-energised when the power was restored.
If all else fails RTFM! Read the flaming manual!
Been a ham since the early 80s the very few times have I encountered a crabby ham. The difference between the two genre is what they talk about. I have listen to lots of qso’s thru the years and yes to an occasional cb op hams might sound intimidating because of the very diverse topic, personalities and culture and profession. I have to apologized if I’m wrong to me the initial complain statement sounds like a CB radio operator looking to bash by the rant I suspect this is the case. For those of you that have an open mind 90 percent of hams are not crabby. i also would tell you if you do go to a ham frequency acting like a jerkoff you would get what you deserve then go to a forum and cry about how mean ham ops are, there is always two sides to a coin. Second, I won’t limit myself because one bad ham
olderookie
Member
I am glad I provoked a dialogue about the perception of hams!!!! I have met some great people in the ham community, and I was primarily talking about the forums.
I will see a post telling someone to go look it up and long diatribe as to why they should have, and it would have been so much easier to just answer the question. I agree if the info is readily available it should be found by the OP. I know I have looked for things I either couldn't find or was looking in the wrong place or way.
I have had the misfortune to listen to a conversations that was less interesting than watching paint dry, and that is what I think keeps people away from ham radio. It is a fun hobby to me, my wife can't stand it. I don't force it on her, but she lets me play with my radios.
As I said I am glad this made us all think about things in the ham world and it looks like I made a local friend in ham radio, thanks Scott.
I will see a post telling someone to go look it up and long diatribe as to why they should have, and it would have been so much easier to just answer the question. I agree if the info is readily available it should be found by the OP. I know I have looked for things I either couldn't find or was looking in the wrong place or way.
I have had the misfortune to listen to a conversations that was less interesting than watching paint dry, and that is what I think keeps people away from ham radio. It is a fun hobby to me, my wife can't stand it. I don't force it on her, but she lets me play with my radios.
As I said I am glad this made us all think about things in the ham world and it looks like I made a local friend in ham radio, thanks Scott.
WB4CS
Member
With specific regard to the crabby online hams that scream "read the manual!" Here's my take on it...
Amateur Radio is a hobby that is at least 70% experimentation. We build things, we test things, we make them work better, and we scratch our heads when they don't do what they should do. I've spend hours staring at a radio or antenna yelling at it "Why don't you work!??" After spending a few hours working through the problem, I learned how to make it work. Much of the younger generation (and I'm 33 years old) are so damn impatient. They spend 5 minutes fiddling with the radio and then cry on an online forum "Why doesn't my radio do X or Y?" Yeah, in that situation you should get the "RTFM!" answer. On the other hand, if you tell me what you've already tried and obviously you've tried everything you can think of (including RTFM) then you should receive all the help you can get. This is the very basis of "Elmering" - try to figure it out on your own, then learn from someone else.
As for crabby hams on the radio... well I think it boils down to human nature. Take 100 random people and stick them in a room together for a few hours. Quickly you'll see small subgroups begin to form. You'll see a few people that just stay in the corner, and there will surely be a few social butterflies that roam around and talk to everyone. Undoubtedly some new friendships will be made, and more than a few people will absolutely hate each other for no reason at all. This is simply the nature of a social species.
Now, take this same example and apply it to ham radio. On 2-Meters, I pretty much stay on one repeater. This is where most of my "radio friends" can be found. I like most of them, there's a few people on the repeater I can't stand for no other reason than because they annoy me. There's one person that's always right and you couldn't convince him he's wrong if he said the sky was blue. Occasionally we get "outsiders" (new people) that join into the conversation. Sometimes I greet them quickly, other times I sit back and listen. This is the same way I act in person in a crowded room. Now, there's other people on the repeater that are the social butterflies that love to talk to everyone that keys up. There's the wallflower that only talks to one person and signs off when more people join the conversation.
Just as in real life, there are jerks on the radio. These are the people you'd meet anywhere in the real world that just no matter how nice you are to them, they are jerks. We all know "that guy" at our job, or at the grocery store, or even a relative that we all just can't stand to see during the holidays. When you run into those people, in real life or on the air, you can either avoid them or provoke them.
In conclusion (the TL/DR summary): There's crabby people everywhere, not just on ham radio. If you don't like them, don't talk to them. As in real life, find the people that share your common interests and someone you can tolerate and talk to those people instead.
Amateur Radio is a hobby that is at least 70% experimentation. We build things, we test things, we make them work better, and we scratch our heads when they don't do what they should do. I've spend hours staring at a radio or antenna yelling at it "Why don't you work!??" After spending a few hours working through the problem, I learned how to make it work. Much of the younger generation (and I'm 33 years old) are so damn impatient. They spend 5 minutes fiddling with the radio and then cry on an online forum "Why doesn't my radio do X or Y?" Yeah, in that situation you should get the "RTFM!" answer. On the other hand, if you tell me what you've already tried and obviously you've tried everything you can think of (including RTFM) then you should receive all the help you can get. This is the very basis of "Elmering" - try to figure it out on your own, then learn from someone else.
As for crabby hams on the radio... well I think it boils down to human nature. Take 100 random people and stick them in a room together for a few hours. Quickly you'll see small subgroups begin to form. You'll see a few people that just stay in the corner, and there will surely be a few social butterflies that roam around and talk to everyone. Undoubtedly some new friendships will be made, and more than a few people will absolutely hate each other for no reason at all. This is simply the nature of a social species.
Now, take this same example and apply it to ham radio. On 2-Meters, I pretty much stay on one repeater. This is where most of my "radio friends" can be found. I like most of them, there's a few people on the repeater I can't stand for no other reason than because they annoy me. There's one person that's always right and you couldn't convince him he's wrong if he said the sky was blue. Occasionally we get "outsiders" (new people) that join into the conversation. Sometimes I greet them quickly, other times I sit back and listen. This is the same way I act in person in a crowded room. Now, there's other people on the repeater that are the social butterflies that love to talk to everyone that keys up. There's the wallflower that only talks to one person and signs off when more people join the conversation.
Just as in real life, there are jerks on the radio. These are the people you'd meet anywhere in the real world that just no matter how nice you are to them, they are jerks. We all know "that guy" at our job, or at the grocery store, or even a relative that we all just can't stand to see during the holidays. When you run into those people, in real life or on the air, you can either avoid them or provoke them.
In conclusion (the TL/DR summary): There's crabby people everywhere, not just on ham radio. If you don't like them, don't talk to them. As in real life, find the people that share your common interests and someone you can tolerate and talk to those people instead.
Darth_vader
Member
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- Apr 5, 2013
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"P.S. If you are licenced, you are entitled to do everything they do! Do not let them intimidate you. Just get your licence in check and go for it."
The word is "permitted", not "entitled". I've noticed HAM ops seem to like to misuse the latter word quite a lot. "Entitled" means one has the right to [do] something. A HAM ticket does not "entitle" its holder to [do] anything, any more than my Washington State driving licence "entitles" me to operate a car.
Refer also to what I wrote in the final paragraph of this post: http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...shut-radio-off-get-off-train.html#post2094875
The word is "permitted", not "entitled". I've noticed HAM ops seem to like to misuse the latter word quite a lot. "Entitled" means one has the right to [do] something. A HAM ticket does not "entitle" its holder to [do] anything, any more than my Washington State driving licence "entitles" me to operate a car.
Refer also to what I wrote in the final paragraph of this post: http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...shut-radio-off-get-off-train.html#post2094875
elk2370bruce
Member
Keep on asking questions. Reading a text is not always the best way of learning or solving a problem. Human contact and interaction is preferred to the printed page for me. When I was re-licensed some 8 years ago, I asked lots of questions from the hams in my area and those on a favorite repeater. I got those answers and my learning curve jumped quickly. I've made some good friends, both domestically and internationally, in the process on the air. Forget the minority ofcrabby people complaining about their frozen bowels. . That's what the big knob on the radio is for. I rarely have to twist the dial and am now in the position where I can help our newcomers. I'm hardly an Elmer but I try. Go Fer It.
To the op,
Patience!
Sometimes ... ya might catch the old farts with their underwear in a bunch, or the acid reflux has kicked in (myself included) but just have a little patience with them and explain slowly, what your question is and they'll usually be happy to help ... unless you catch them in the middle of their duck dynasty episode! :lol:
73,
n9zas
Patience!
Sometimes ... ya might catch the old farts with their underwear in a bunch, or the acid reflux has kicked in (myself included) but just have a little patience with them and explain slowly, what your question is and they'll usually be happy to help ... unless you catch them in the middle of their duck dynasty episode! :lol:
73,
n9zas
But you miss the point some of us have been trying to make. It's not about saving ME time and effort, it's about helping YOU learn to think for yourself.
The issue is, many times the questions are asked when the info IS readily available, and the person posing the question simply wants a fast an easy answer. I guess that's where some of us differ. There were no fast and easy answers back when some of us were green. The old timers made us do the work, and were there to back us up. They weren't there to do it for us.
I hear this complaint a lot. The fact is, ham radio isn't there to entertain a listening audience. It's there for the participants. If the participants want to engage in a conversation that's so boring that listeners want to gouge their eyes out with a spork and pour hot oil in their ears, well, that's their problem. The rest of us aren't being forced to listen.
Seems like a reasonable approach.
N0IU
Member
As my wife states on her QRZ bio, "I accepted the challenge of passing the initial licensing so I could prove to my doubting husband (Scott - N0IU) that I could really do it!" I think she must hold some sort of record. She has had her Tech ticket since 2000 and even renewed it, but she has NEVER been on the air... ever! Not even once! I still have to be nice because she knows where the breaker box is!
Now the pressure is really on to prove I am not as crabby as some people think I am when I buy him that Mt. Dew!
This is my take on internet forums. I am or have been a member of quite a few. Most of the time the loudest are just there to valid their self worth. They have a opinion on everything and if you don't agree with their position you are lesser. These types are easy to ignore and after a while have more people that hate them than like them.
Some of the best forums I used to belong to were the wild west types. Anything goes and moderation was minimal. Those were also not commercial sites. Commercial site can become very stale. They have a image to keep up. I have nothing against commercial site. Capitalism is good and the servers, software, and personnel it take to run one isn't cheap. However typically that is where the elitist validating their own self worth hangs out. And this has nothing to do with hams. It's in every forum. Just because google gave you the the top forum site. Doesn't mean it's the best site to ask questions it could just be a one big cliche.
BTW some of the best information is not from a forum. It's from somebody that just decided to put up a webpage and fill it with information on projects they have done or are just passing around to keep the spirit alive.
Some of the best forums I used to belong to were the wild west types. Anything goes and moderation was minimal. Those were also not commercial sites. Commercial site can become very stale. They have a image to keep up. I have nothing against commercial site. Capitalism is good and the servers, software, and personnel it take to run one isn't cheap. However typically that is where the elitist validating their own self worth hangs out. And this has nothing to do with hams. It's in every forum. Just because google gave you the the top forum site. Doesn't mean it's the best site to ask questions it could just be a one big cliche.
BTW some of the best information is not from a forum. It's from somebody that just decided to put up a webpage and fill it with information on projects they have done or are just passing around to keep the spirit alive.
Darth_vader
Member
- Joined
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<hijack> "Some of the best forums I used to belong to were the 'wild west' types. Anything went and moderation was minimal."
Those also tend to be the types that have the biggest troll problems. Case in point: http://feedback.pdxradio.com (not safe for work.)
If you decide to check it out, don't say I didn't warn you. I, myself, used to quite enjoy it some years ago, when the discussion mainly involved radio. Basically, the moderator let it go, the disarmament/abortion/teabagger/sex/treehugger trolls are pretty much took it over and turned it into their little garbage dump. </hijack>
Those also tend to be the types that have the biggest troll problems. Case in point: http://feedback.pdxradio.com (not safe for work.)
If you decide to check it out, don't say I didn't warn you. I, myself, used to quite enjoy it some years ago, when the discussion mainly involved radio. Basically, the moderator let it go, the disarmament/abortion/teabagger/sex/treehugger trolls are pretty much took it over and turned it into their little garbage dump. </hijack>
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Fast1eddie
Member
Just had to log in and add my perspective to this discussion. Although I am no longer in the hobby, I have maintained my license instead of allowing it to lapse. My reasons for inactivity was the insistence of ops using cutesy phonetics that were best left behind on 11 meters and politics of the clubs. I do have to laugh at the so called weather spotter police types. Not meaning to pick on you, but until you have spent several years pushing a Crown VIc around town and dealing with society's issues, I find y'all really stupid.
Over to you. And no, it's not a Happy New Year, just another day on this earth.
Over to you. And no, it's not a Happy New Year, just another day on this earth.
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