CrimeRadar..

[iceman977th]

CrimeRadar and it's AI scraping of calls (incorrectly) and subsequent false alerts to news outlets, has five agencies in my area that were previously opposed to encrypting their radio traffic to engage with those of us that are secure to follow suit.

If this keeps up, most of you will have nothing to listen to soon enough.

I'm not going to lie, at this point I am close to removing all sends of traffic to Broadcastify until this is resolved. It's going to cause massive headaches for public safety, and it already has begun to do that.

What Lindsay has on the BCFY feeds is good enough. If there's a major incident, someone will report it. We don't need more than that.

 

[Enforcer52]

Here are some of the dumb "ALERTS" on Crime Radar that have been scraped from my feed over the last few days and are currently listed:

Erratic driving reported near fm356 in onalaska
Traffic control for oversized load on Clay Street
Medical emergency reported near west cedar avenue
Suspicious person seen walking near lakeshore drive
Female having seizures at North Shore RV park
Trauma medical call near Cypress Glen
Motorist Assist near highway 321
Traffic check confirms valid insurance and registration - (PROBABLY SHOULD BE ON FRONT PAGE AROUND THE COUNTRY)
Abandoned vehicle on highway 94
Two loose horses block traffic on highway 190
Woman complains about wrist pain near cedar ave
Woman with liver disease needs medical assistance
Medical emergency for woman with fever and shortness of breath
Abandoned vehicle found on eastbound Woods road
Traffic stop on highway near Onalaska
Man bitten by cat with swollen hand - (lordy, ask Trump to issue an executive order against car owners)

None of these meet the requirements of RR alerts.

And the list could just go on and on with these WORLD SHAKING news ALERTS. And this is only a very small portion of the so called Alerts on Crime Radar, just from my feeds. Then there is the awful AI translation and combining of more than one call at a time.

Makes all us feed providers look bad, like we are the ones pushing this nonsense. System was fine with the Alert rules set forth by RR, but Crime Radar thinks everything is deserving of a crime alert.

I agree that something needs to be done about it and very soon. I'm giving it to the first of the year and then will make a decision.

Enforcer52

 

[KD0FEO]

I'm not going to lie, at this point I am close to removing all sends of traffic to Broadcastify until this is resolved. It's going to cause massive headaches for public safety, and it already has begun to do that.

I've already done that but there are multiple receivers in my area, so the internal talkgroups and tactical channels still get pushed to Broadcastify by a neighboring feed.

I also agree with it making the providers look bad, and those of us who run public safety pages that report on factual incidents are having to answer for events that didn't even occur because it was safety training on a talkgroup that artificial intelligence has no business in. It should be restricted to public feeds as the providers already have it filtered down to what is safe for immediate release.

I do not support this and am considering cutting my two feeds and calls upload come Jan 1st -- 2,042,212 call uploads since July, 26th 2025.

 

[xicarusx]

I'm not going to lie, at this point I am close to removing all sends of traffic to Broadcastify until this is resolved. It's going to cause massive headaches for public safety, and it already has begun to do that.

I personally encourage you to do exactly that. Stop feeding Broadcastify Calls and Streams both. There are a quite a few of us that don't want the data we are providing to be used in this manner. Crimeradar and Newsbreak are both using Calls API and Feeds to take the data we are providing for FREE and at our expense and making big money on it.

Find alternatives, host your own icecast server, host your own RDIO server. Feed your calls to OpenMHZ instead, who does not sell access to their data.

I will be cutting my data off by Jan 1st. I strongly suggest you all do the same.

 

[mikegilbert]

When LB announced he'd be opening up all calls, I knew it would only be a matter of time before something like this happened.

Radioreference is a phenomenal site, and BCFY is a good concept, but the cognitive dissonance of allowing anything and everything to be archived, scraped, mined, etc, is just too much. I couldn't imagine sabotaging my own FCC hobby to subsidize an FAA hobby.

Minimizing the valid concerns of the feed providers above is really disappointing. They're providing value to this platform, and their requests should be respected. I don't blame them one bit for removing their feeds.

The TAC channels and other "sensitive" talkgroups need to go away ASAP.

 

[J-Wrock]

The Newsbreak and Crimeradar teams are intimately aware of these issues and are actively working to mitigate and address.

I am not a feed provider, however, I do subscribe to Broadcastify. As long as Broadcastify is allowing half-baked AI sites to mine its data and post often incorrect and false reports I am considering canceling my subscription to Broadcastify.

 

[ChrisABQ]

Just remember everyone, it starts with you. You are the volunteers feeding the information. If you no longer trust the company your sending your traffic to, stop sending it. I no longer provide LE comm's because I would like to keep listening, I send ATC instead and keep LE and Fire to myself.

 

[IcomIcR20]

As of this evening I have started the process of blocking sensitive tactical talkgroups (SID, CID, SWAT, etc.) from being carried on my nodes which cover three different systems and five sites. This is easy to implement in trunk-recorder and I imagine you can do something similar in SDRTrunk. I honestly may keep it like this permanently, but at the very least as long as Newsbreak and Crime Radar are scraping Law Tac TGs. Seeing a Newsbreak alert go out for an ongoing surveillance operation on a tactical TG was enough for me.

@blantonl as someone who has loves the Calls platform and has spent quite a bit of time, energy, and money deploying nodes in multiple counties and states, I strongly encourage you to consider preventing the scraping of Law Tac TGs at a minimum. I can tolerate general dispatch if I must, but using AI to alert the public to an active surveillance operation and the like is downright foolish.

 

[iceman977th]

As of this evening I have started the process of blocking sensitive tactical talkgroups (SID, CID, SWAT, etc.) from being carried on my nodes which cover three different systems and five sites. This is easy to implement in trunk-recorder and I imagine you can do something similar in SDRTrunk. I honestly may keep it like this permanently, but at the very least as long as Newsbreak and Crime Radar are scraping Law Tac TGs. Seeing a Newsbreak alert go out for an ongoing surveillance operation on a tactical TG was enough for me.

@blantonl as someone who has loves the Calls platform and has spent quite a bit of time, energy, and money deploying nodes in multiple counties and states, I strongly encourage you to consider preventing the scraping of Law Tac TGs at a minimum. I can tolerate general dispatch if I must, but using AI to alert the public to an active surveillance operation and the like is downright foolish.

In Lindsay's defense the first two lines that you check to broadcast a feed are

- I agree to ONLY broadcast routine dispatch and special events channels and talkgroups for law enforcement agencies.

- I agree to NOT broadcast dedicated tactical, car-to-car, NCIC/Records, SWAT, narcotics, detectives or any other channels or talkgroups that are not routine dispatch or special events related.

So, if you are broadcasting other than that, technically you are already breaking the rules. However, the issue lies far beyond tac talkgroups. Newsbreak/Crimeradar's AI is not sophisticated enough to properly interpret radio calls for an event and keep incidents separated as well as accurate enough to not create hysteria. It will continue being an issue until the AI is intelligent enough to attach radio traffic with specific units, or have a way to decipher the traffic. Ultimately it will lead to 1. Scanner feeds dropping like flies and 2. More agencies switching to encryption specifically because of issues like this.

 

[IcomIcR20]

In Lindsay's defense the first two lines that you check to broadcast a feed are

- I agree to ONLY broadcast routine dispatch and special events channels and talkgroups for law enforcement agencies.

- I agree to NOT broadcast dedicated tactical, car-to-car, NCIC/Records, SWAT, narcotics, detectives or any other channels or talkgroups that are not routine dispatch or special events related.

So, if you are broadcasting other than that, technically you are already breaking the rules.

Fair, but Lindsay has also explicitly asked Calls providers to feed all talkgroups on posts here in the Forums. When I started providing these nodes, Law Tac TGs could not be monitored by anyone other than a node provider for the system (which is only me for two of the three systems I stream) so it was a non-issue. When such talkgroups were opened up to premiums users I began to get wary and now with the NewsBreak/Crime Radar behavior I am observing I made the decision to stop feeding these talkgroups.

I agree that there are other glaring issues beyond just the AI-scraping of Law Tac talkgroups, but that is part of the issue that I (and other feed providers) have the power to easily fix without having to go so far as to completely stop streaming, although I can definitely understand why some are considering doing so. I will wait and see what happens, but if this continues to be a major issue I may also shut down my nodes.

 

[iceman977th]

Fair, but Lindsay has also explicitly asked Calls providers to feed all talkgroups on posts here in the Forums. When I started providing these nodes, Law Tac TGs could not be received by anyone other than a node provider for the system (which is only me for two of the three systems I stream) so it was a non-issue. When such talkgroups were opened up to premiums users I began to get wary and now with the NewsBreak/Crime Radar behavior I am observing I made the decision to stop feeding these talkgroups.

I agree that there are other glaring issues beyond just the AI-scraping of Law Tac talkgroups, but that is part of the issue that I (and other feed providers) have the power to easily fix without having to go so far as to completely stop streaming, although I can definitely understand why some are considering doing so. I will wait and see what happens, but if this continues to be a major issue I may also shut down my nodes.

At this point, I'm not shutting down my feeds, but if something isn't changed by January 1st, I think I'm going to "black out" my feeds. Leave them running but remove all audio being sent to them, with an explanation of why, as a peaceful protest against the data scraping practice. I wasn't a fan of it when it first started but it seemed to be minimal impact.. but now it's become a problem.

 

[blantonl]

At this point, I'm not shutting down my feeds, but if something isn't changed by January 1st, I think I'm going to "black out" my feeds. Leave them running but remove all audio being sent to them, with an explanation of why, as a peaceful protest against the data scraping practice. I wasn't a fan of it when it first started but it seemed to be minimal impact.. but now it's become a problem.

If you do that, we're going to terminate your feed.

I told you previously that we're working with CrimeRadar and Newsbreak on these issues, that they are intimately aware of the issue and are very keen on resolving the issues and providing a better experience for everyone involved. I'm not sure what else to tell you, but if my responses to you aren't sufficient for what you require as an explanation, take down your feed and move on.

This site is not an avenue for your "peaceful protest."

 

[blantonl]

@blantonl as someone who has loves the Calls platform and has spent quite a bit of time, energy, and money deploying nodes in multiple counties and states, I strongly encourage you to consider preventing the scraping of Law Tac TGs at a minimum. I can tolerate general dispatch if I must, but using AI to alert the public to an active surveillance operation and the like is downright foolish.

I'm very aware of this and we're rectifying the situation and working with all the AI related teams. It's top of the radar (no pun intended) to be addressed, and should not have happened.

 

[blantonl]

I personally encourage you to do exactly that. Stop feeding Broadcastify Calls and Streams both. There are a quite a few of us that don't want the data we are providing to be used in this manner. Crimeradar and Newsbreak are both using Calls API and Feeds to take the data we are providing for FREE and at our expense and making big money on it.

Find alternatives, host your own icecast server, host your own RDIO server. Feed your calls to OpenMHZ instead, who does not sell access to their data.

I will be cutting my data off by Jan 1st. I strongly suggest you all do the same.

Whenever new technology is introduced or changes are made on RadioReference or Broadcastify, there is a recurring pattern where some feed providers or premium subscribers respond by threatening to remove feeds or cancel subscriptions. It's like clockwork.

Let me be crystal clear: the relationship between feed providers, premium subscribers, and the platform is and has always been mutually beneficial. Participation is entirely voluntary. No one here is compelled to provide a feed, and no one is obligated to continue to be a premium subscriber. If you believe that relationship is no longer mutually beneficial, you are free to move on. Where issues most often arise is when a feed provider or subscriber all the sudden believes they are entitled to disproportionate influence or assumes the platform is acting in bad faith or for outsized financial gain.

Those who have been part of this community for any length of time knows that I have a sharp tongue, but that I'm also committed to protecting the integrity and long-term health of this platform. We have grown every single year since inception in 1998 and our track record is clear. While I welcome constructive feedback and acknowledge that we are not immune to mistakes, we will not tolerate threats, ultimatums, or bad-faith criticism. I make decisions here deliberately and with the best interests of the platform and this community, and if you don't agree with my approach, simply disengage and move on.

 

[Enforcer52]

OK lets all stop and take a deep breath!

Lindsay has stated that the problem is being worked on. So everyone on both sides of the coin needs to let that process play out.

I don't think the problem was anticipated when the agreements with the AI folks was made, and hopefully the issue can be resolved.

I understand the feed providers wanting to protect their feeds and were comfortable with the rules that were in place as to what could be sent to Broadcastify and Calls, and what constituted an Alert. I also understand the AI folks trying to get as much attention as possible for their apps, but don't think they understand the repercussions of everything they are promoting and how it will affect the continuing trend towards encryption.

I know I posted some messages that may be taken out of context, but I simply don't like our feeds looking like a bunch of kinder-gardeners are running them. We all have a lot of time and money invested in this hobby.

I suggest the two threads discussing this be terminated, with only Lindsay posting updates, and everyone wait for a resolution. Threatening to leave or threatening legal action is NOT THE ANSWER, but to each his own. We all have to make a decision on where and what we want our feeds to be in the future.

But AI is NOT going away, it is here to stay even with all the problems in its infancy, as we see through out the Internet.

If anything I have learned in my 73 years is to have a little patience, speaking out is our right, but with the right comes repercussions.

I ask all my RR buddies to sit back and take a "wait and see" attitude.

Thank You,
Enforcer52

 

[xicarusx]

Let me be crystal clear: the relationship between feed providers, premium subscribers, and the platform is and has always been mutually beneficial. Participation is entirely voluntary. No one here is compelled to provide a feed, and no one is obligated to continue to be a premium subscriber. If you believe that relationship is no longer mutually beneficial, you are free to move on. Where issues most often arise is when a feed provider or subscriber all the sudden believes they are entitled to disproportionate influence or assumes the platform is acting in bad faith or for outsized financial gain.

Let me be crystal clear. Allowing Crimeradar and Newsbreak et al, to continue doing what they are doing, is going to cause a massive wave of encryption. That is bad for us as hobbyists and you as a proprietor of such a platform. It has already started as a direct result of the hysteria caused recently by the issues that we are all aware of.

Something that you have to understand here, is that one of these times will be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to feed providers. I don't believe Radio Reference or Broadcastify is acting in bad faith. I think this platform is great and could be even better. With the correct developer YOU could be the one sending alerts and having subscription based notifications of incidents and an entire volunteer dispatch network that only partially relies on AI but is passed through the hands of an actual person before a notification goes out to make sure its legitimate. I know this, because I have already built the software do it it locally in a few regions for community members. Training whisper on local radio audio to get much higher WER than standard whisper on scanner audio. Passing it through alert filters and sending it to a dispatch console for volunteers to pick through and confirm.

That being said someone else can take my place providing the feeds I provide and have provided for 10 years. So long and thanks for all the shoes.

 

[ad8g]

The Newsbreak and Crimeradar teams are intimately aware of these issues and are actively working to mitigate and address.

Honestly, as bad as they're performing, they should temporarily discontinue their services and do more rigorous internal testing.

 

[blantonl]

Something that you have to understand here, is that one of these times will be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to feed providers. I don't believe Radio Reference or Broadcastify is acting in bad faith. I think this platform is great and could be even better. With the correct developer YOU could be the one sending alerts and having subscription based notifications of incidents and an entire volunteer dispatch network that only partially relies on AI but is passed through the hands of an actual person before a notification goes out to make sure its legitimate. I know this, because I have already built the software do it it locally in a few regions for community members. Training whisper on local radio audio to get much higher WER than standard whisper on scanner audio. Passing it through alert filters and sending it to a dispatch console for volunteers to pick through and confirm.

You got it all figured out! I would have never thought of this, but great idea maybe I'll roll this out, I dunno, this week... stay tuned!

That being said someone else can take my place providing the feeds I provide and have provided for 10 years. So long and thanks for all the shoes.

 

[iceman977th]

Let me be crystal clear. Allowing Crimeradar and Newsbreak et al, to continue doing what they are doing, is going to cause a massive wave of encryption. That is bad for us as hobbyists and you as a proprietor of such a platform. It has already started as a direct result of the hysteria caused recently by the issues that we are all aware of.

Something that you have to understand here, is that one of these times will be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to feed providers. I don't believe Radio Reference or Broadcastify is acting in bad faith. I think this platform is great and could be even better. With the correct developer YOU could be the one sending alerts and having subscription based notifications of incidents and an entire volunteer dispatch network that only partially relies on AI but is passed through the hands of an actual person before a notification goes out to make sure its legitimate. I know this, because I have already built the software do it it locally in a few regions for community members. Training whisper on local radio audio to get much higher WER than standard whisper on scanner audio. Passing it through alert filters and sending it to a dispatch console for volunteers to pick through and confirm.

That being said someone else can take my place providing the feeds I provide and have provided for 10 years. So long and thanks for all the shoes.

You've hit the nail on the head. The discussion of encryption here has started already because of this, from what I've gathered from a couple officials.

So, it's very well possible that this "partnership" is going to very quickly cause agencies to convert to encrypted traffic and eliminate the issue altogether. Less feeds = less traffic coming to the site = less revenue.

 

[blantonl]

Alright, your feedback has been received, a couple people took their ball and went home.

Thread closed, have a nice rest of your week. We’ve got work to do.