CSX Abbeville Sub Receiving

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Ash103113

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Hello everyone:



I’m creating this discussion forum because I wanted some input on a big dilemma I’m faced with in terms of railroad receiving. I’m sorry this is so long but I wanted to tell you the history of everything I’ve tried so maybe you can help me come up with some new idea.



I currently live near Norcross, GA about half a mile from the Norfolk Southern Greenville District. I have a recording system set up in the house with a Uniden BC355N scanner to monitor the train crews movements via a recording system. For this set up I simply use an auxiliary cord to join the external output slot of the scanner to the microphone port of a computer while using the basic default telescoping stock antenna that arrived with the BC355N. With this set up, I can receive the traffic calling signals as far south as Ray and sometimes as far north as Duluth. The system records the daily traffic of the crews and dispatcher so I can then check through the transmissions with a notepad the recording creates to determine the overnight cycle of trains that may have already passed or have yet to pass.



So, my dilemma I’m currently having is with a second similar set up hooked up to another computer. Since I live near Norcross, I’m also 8 miles from the CSX Abbeville Subdivision near Lilburn, GA. I’ve heard the dispatcher sometimes from the BC355N with the stock antenna but no detectors or crews. I did some research about stronger railroad receiving antennas (since the ATCS antenna we currently use on the top of the house, the Comet KP-20, can easily hear CP Goodwin chirps about 7.3 miles away). From the research, it seemed that most results narrowed down to the most trusted and most widely spoken of antenna for receiving train crews with a distance of at least 20 miles away (or more), the Outdoor Vertical TrainTenna from DPP Productions. So that was my first choice I went with to receive the crews and the defect detector 8 miles from our house (SG 552.4). Once the antenna was connected with the N Male and BNC Male 50 ft. coaxial cable (MPD-400 super flex) to the Uniden BC355N scanner, I was immediately hearing the yard in Atlanta—25 miles away, the crews around Tucker (10 miles), Brickyard (Intermediate signal near Harmony Grove Road) (8-9 miles), Lilburn (7 miles), the defect detector at the SG 552.4 (8 miles), and occasionally South Gloster (9 miles). I was very impressed with this set up receiving this much traffic and couldn’t wait to see what a second TrainTenna could receive just for Norfolk Southern.



This testing only lasted a short time, however, because from the time I hooked it all up on December 24th, of 2020 I was only able to continue hearing the transmissions made until January 12th, of 2021. I was now suddenly no longer hearing the crews call out anymore nor was I hearing the defect detector. I simply heard what the BC355N originally received which was the Abbeville Dispatcher. Even the recording system use to have about 30 minutes to an hour of feed recorded each day with the previous working set up. Now it’s only 3 minutes of the dispatcher per day.



I began to test around and see if possibly the attic was interfering with the signal. I took the coaxial cable and the TrainTenna up to the roof and tied it around the chimney temporarily to see if that might bring the receiving range back. Unfortunately, this had no effect and I was still hearing just the dispatcher. So next I began thinking maybe the antenna was malfunctioning.






I contacted Dave, from DPD Productions, to determine if it could’ve been a fault with the antenna (since it’s hard for me to determine how an antenna is working properly without being an expert). I decided after a while of discussing on the phone with him, that perhaps it was best to send it back to Dave and let him test it. When it arrived back in California and Dave began testing with it, he said he was receiving a weak NOAA (Weather-band channel) just fine from his location. So I figured maybe CSX changed something with their radio bands, but I asked the various Abbeville Messenger chats and per the sources in there no channel band frequencies had changed. It still remained 161.100.



After about a month, I decided that since this first antenna worked so great for this original setup, that I should reordered the Outdoor TrainTenna. I didn’t expect to hear anything when it arrived again but in case it might’ve been the coax cable that was malfunctioning as well I decided to purchase an LMR-400 coaxial cable (same as the current ATCS coax) because I’ve heard this transmits the signal the best and it may determine if the previous cable wasn’t strong enough for transmitting anymore or if it had been bent in the attic, but as expected, it still received only the dispatcher once more.



So my questions to everyone here is this, do you think the reason this antenna is no longer receiving the crews or the SG 552.4 defect detector is because of possible changes in the signal, or a new signal causing interference? We have one really powerful radio station in Atlanta (WSB) and have problems with their signals even bleeding over our phones, so I wondered if they may have put up a new transmitter antenna that was bleeding over the RR signals? These signals were once being transmitted so powerfully over the holidays, but then just stopped all in one day after the holidays wrapped up, on January 12. I tested the same antenna and set up for Norfolk Southern and it only receives Ray – Duluth still as well, nothing farther south near Atlanta and nothing farther north of Duluth. On the Norfolk Southern antenna, I had started hearing very short “bursts” of some other sounds---sounds almost like music is trying to bleed over in less than 10-second blips. On the antenna I was using for CSX, right before the signal suddenly dropped on January 12 I’d been hearing a constant “ticking” sound, like 1-second intervals of someone tapping a pencil on a table.



Could another possibility be that 5G cellular band installations increasing around the overall Atlanta region are causing interference? I noticed a new large cell tower has been built within sight of my house, and it think it may be between me and the CSX signals I used to get from Lilburn / Tucker.



Do y’all think it might have to do with the antenna even though it’s brand new? Or one of the above types of interference? Or CSX changing their signals? And is there any way to overcome these?



I’m open to trying out a new antenna should there be any stronger ones y’all can recommend to me. I thought that maybe the Hustler G7-150-3 might work as it’s made for the 161 - 167 MHz but it doesn’t have any current reviews so I’m unsure if it may work for what I need as well. I could attempt an amplifier as well but that still may cause a signal loss, not to mention wouldn’t that possibly only allow me to hear Lilburn at most?



Any comments and links are appreciated and I’m sorry for such a long and involved thread.
 

Floridarailfanning

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Here are a few things you should consider. Don't get caught up with the range claims from antenna manufacturers. The range of your setup is totally location-specific.

Just because you are able to hear trains 20 miles away in one direction does not mean that you will have equal range in other directions. I have a VHF base station that is on a fairly prominent hill and it gets out about 20 miles to the East but only about 5-8 miles in other directions.

CSX has been turning the power down on their detectors recently and that could suddenly prevent you from hearing it, but if you aren't hearing trains anymore either there could be a number of issues with your setup.

Since you have tried two different runs of cable, I doubt that this is your current issue but it could become one if not careful. Make certain that you sufficiently waterproof the N connector on the antenna end of the cable. If water finds its way into the connector or cable you will have serious issues.
Could another possibility be that 5G cellular band installations increasing around the overall Atlanta region are causing interference?
5G would be unlikely to have a significant impact on VHF performance.
I noticed a new large cell tower has been built within sight of my house
Did the construction of this tower coincide with your loss of reception?

It's unlikely that cellular is affecting your scanner on VHF, but there could be a powerful VHF installation on that new tower that is overloading the radio.
 

N4DJC

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It may be other frequencies interfering with your signal, check the RR database for adjacent frequencies close to your location.
 

Ash103113

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Did the construction of this tower coincide with your loss of reception?

It's unlikely that cellular is affecting your scanner on VHF, but there could be a powerful VHF installation on that new tower that is overloading the radio.
[/QUOTE]

Oh okay, thank you for your reply! Is there a way to possibly cancel out this overload if it is occurring? I'll admit before the signal went away on the 12th of January it sounded like a slight drumbeat here and there on the recording. I'm using a second and newer BC355N as well in case the first one had issues. I'm unsure exactly when the tower construction began but I do wonder if it's the main issue.

Also, the coaxial cables on the antenna should be fine since those times I tested it on the roof were just to see if the extra height from a fencepost would make a difference, but when I realized it wasn't, I put it back in the original spot in the attic.
 

Floridarailfanning

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Is there a way to possibly cancel out this overload if it is occurring?
If the interference is coming from an FM radio station it would be fairly straightforward to add an FM filter to stop your scanner from "hearing" it, but if the source is in the VHF 150-160 range it would be much more difficult to resolve.
I'm unsure exactly when the tower construction began but I do wonder if it's the main issue.
Can you determine the approximate address of the new tower, or locate it on google maps for us? Identifying the equipment on this tower would help narrow things down.
 

Ash103113

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If the interference is coming from an FM radio station it would be fairly straightforward to add an FM filter to stop your scanner from "hearing" it, but if the source is in the VHF 150-160 range it would be much more difficult to resolve.

Can you determine the approximate address of the new tower, or locate it on google maps for us? Identifying the equipment on this tower would help narrow things down.
The towers are located at "Flooring Atlanta, 5894 Goshen Springs Road, Norcross, GA"
 

Floridarailfanning

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The towers are located at "Flooring Atlanta, 5894 Goshen Springs Road, Norcross, GA"
I looked at those two towers neither of which are actually new.

The tower closer to Goshen Springs Rd is owned by America Tower which is a leasing company and probably only has cellular equipment. The other tower is owned by Gwinnett County and is part of the public safety radio system.

The only thing I could find licensed at that site that could be causing you issues is a VHF Paging system.
If they're indeed putting out 350 watts on 157.740MHz they could easily be overloading your scanner.

Now, to clarify you are still hearing NS correct?
 

Ash103113

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Now, to clarify you are still hearing NS correct?

That's correct. NS still comes in clear even with the stock antenna (about 2 ft. tall) the Uniden BC355N originally came with since we're half a mile from downtown Norcross.

The NS recording system sits on a shelf here in our Livingroom connected up to a computer with an auxiliary cable and its only issue is random interference from a radio station, possibly WSB with intermittent sounds (like the music it plays when a talk show host first comes back on the air after a commercial break) it only lasts about 5 seconds or so though, not steady.

When I tested the Traintennas reception on the roof to see if it could receive the same controls points that the ATCS antenna currently receives for NS (such as Goodwin - Duluth), it could only receive the same audio as the current stock antenna for NS, which is currently just Ray - Duluth. So I am wondering if there's something limiting the signal from traveling as farther south as it use too since the ATCS chirps can still receive Chamblee and Goodwin but not NS communications with this TrainTenna.

Would the Hustler G7-150-3 be a possible decent replacement to look into should the radials make a difference?
 
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N4DJC

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I have used a Ringo Ranger (AR-2) tuned to 160 MHz inside my house with decent results. I’m no where close enough to hear a lot (you’re in a great location), the Greenville yard is 30 miles away plus I’m down in a hole. The radials on a vertical act as a ground plane for transmitting, doubt they would help your reception issues.

A larger antenna higher up is always better. There may be some obstructions preventing better reception or interference of some type (pagers cause a lot in the vhf spectrum).
 
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217

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I don't know your exact address so I used the intersection of Buford Highway and Mitchell rd for a reference point. On the right side is Lester rd and the SG 552.4 hbd. A green line would be line-of-sight.

radio-path-study-3.jpeg

I have a hbd 14 miles from my location that I could hear maybe 5 times a year when conditions were right. I built a directional antenna and now hear that hbd everyday.
 

JoshuaHufford

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That's correct. NS still comes in clear even with the stock antenna (about 2 ft. tall) the Uniden BC355N originally came with since we're half a mile from downtown Norcross.

The NS recording system sits on a shelf here in our Livingroom connected up to a computer with an auxiliary cable and its only issue is random interference from a radio station, possibly WSB with intermittent sounds (like the music it plays when a talk show host first comes back on the air after a commercial break) it only lasts about 5 seconds or so though, not steady.

When I tested the Traintennas reception on the roof to see if it could receive the same controls points that the ATCS antenna currently receives for NS (such as Goodwin - Duluth), it could only receive the same audio as the current stock antenna for NS, which is currently just Ray - Duluth. So I am wondering if there's something limiting the signal from traveling as farther south as it use too since the ATCS chirps can still receive Chamblee and Goodwin but not NS communications with this TrainTenna.

Would the Hustler G7-150-3 be a possible decent replacement to look into should the radials make a difference?

If you are getting bleed over from an FM radio station while listening to the 160MHz range I would seriously consider getting a filter to either pass the railband only or block the FM broadcast band, I bet that would improve your situation.
 

Ash103113

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I don't know your exact address so I used the intersection of Buford Highway and Mitchell rd for a reference point. On the right side is Lester rd and the SG 552.4 hbd. A green line would be line-of-sight.

View attachment 100613

I have a hbd 14 miles from my location that I could hear maybe 5 times a year when conditions were right. I built a directional antenna and now hear that hbd everyday.

That's an awesome graph! Are each of the gray lines symbolizing hills which could block the transmitted signal?

Also a directional antenna like that sure would be useful because our house doesn't really have an easy way to construct a large radio tower to help gain the required reception we need to hear the hotbox detector. Is there a way to look into obtaining this same kind of antenna you use for your set up?
 

217

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That's an awesome graph! Are each of the gray lines symbolizing hills which could block the transmitted signal?

Also a directional antenna like that sure would be useful because our house doesn't really have an easy way to construct a large radio tower to help gain the required reception we need to hear the hotbox detector. Is there a way to look into obtaining this same kind of antenna you use for your set up?

It is a basic profile of the earth. I used parts of an unwanted tv antenna and made a Yagi Uda. If your interested in making one I can share the design with you.

This is my profile. I had to deal with 14 miles. Them detectors are low power

.my line of sight 14.5 MILES (2).jpeg
 
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Ash103113

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It is a basic profile of the earth. I used parts of an unwanted tv antenna and made a Yagi Uda. If your interested in making one I can share the design with you.

This is my profile. I had to deal with 14 miles. Them detectors are low power

.View attachment 100679

That would be great if I could determine a design with your assistance! Is there a way I can PM you 1-1? Since I'll admit I'm still not too familiar with Radio Reference's set up quite yet.
 

Ash103113

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If you are getting bleed over from an FM radio station while listening to the 160MHz range I would seriously consider getting a filter to either pass the railband only or block the FM broadcast band, I bet that would improve your situation.

Thank! Do you have a link to the correct kind of filter for this set up I could look into obtaining? Any materials to help bring the old signal back that was I receiving in the past I'm all for.
 

JoshuaHufford

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Thank! Do you have a link to the correct kind of filter for this set up I could look into obtaining? Any materials to help bring the old signal back that was I receiving in the past I'm all for.

Here is an example of a bandpass filter that will work for the railband,


Downside is the insertion loss is 3dB which is significant, but it could improve things overall.

If funds aren't a problem these two have much lower insertion loss,



Since it sounds like the problem is likely FM radio I would probably start with one of these or similar,


There are all kinds of these on the market, just search for FM notch filter.
 

Ash103113

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Here is an example of a bandpass filter that will work for the railband,


Downside is the insertion loss is 3dB which is significant, but it could improve things overall.

If funds aren't a problem these two have much lower insertion loss,



Since it sounds like the problem is likely FM radio I would probably start with one of these or similar,


There are all kinds of these on the market, just search for FM notch filter.

Thank you so much!
 

Ash103113

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Hello everyone:

I know it has been a long time since I've posted within this thread but I wanted to provide an update...the system works again!

Turns out that my Uniden scanners' (the BC75XLT and the BC355N) apparently weren't doing the trick anymore, or at least that's what I'm lead to believe as I never tried other base radio options until now. So, I purchased a Yaesu FTM-3100r along with its required Powerwerx power supply ( this is the one my friend Ron uses), hooked up with 5 ft. of LMR-400 coax (N Male to Pl-259 connections), and the signal from December/January came back immediately!

It seems that when this system works correctly, the Traintenna can receive the hot box defect detector in Stone Mountain (15 miles away) and CP North Lawrenceville (14 miles away); it even seems to receive the Howell Yardmaster in Atlanta during the morning and Evening hours.

Once again thank you everyone for your recommendations and assistance!
 

JoshuaHufford

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Hello everyone:

I know it has been a long time since I've posted within this thread but I wanted to provide an update...the system works again!

Turns out that my Uniden scanners' (the BC75XLT and the BC355N) apparently weren't doing the trick anymore, or at least that's what I'm lead to believe as I never tried other base radio options until now. So, I purchased a Yaesu FTM-3100r along with its required Powerwerx power supply ( this is the one my friend Ron uses), hooked up with 5 ft. of LMR-400 coax (N Male to Pl-259 connections), and the signal from December/January came back immediately!

It seems that when this system works correctly, the Traintenna can receive the hot box defect detector in Stone Mountain (15 miles away) and CP North Lawrenceville (14 miles away); it even seems to receive the Howell Yardmaster in Atlanta during the morning and Evening hours.

Once again thank you everyone for your recommendations and assistance!

Commercial radios generally work much better than scanners if there are strong nearby signals which seemed to be your problem. Even with the receiver you are using things might improve even more with some filtering.
 
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